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back thru the years, I think the mental positioning & social acceptance in Japan, was that modification of a newly purchased vehicle was part of the ownership experience. It's in their DNA with lots of brands. Definitely seems more acceptable verses here in the US where even back 25 years ago, most people at least had in the back of their minds the need to allow for reversibility.
This is all of course, from my own perspective based on readings & movies. I could be way off base.
So here's what I know about the business of importing cars into Japan and how it affects this car and lines up with what Anthony said about cars that end up over here.
Japan does everything in their power to screw with foreign manufacturers in order to discourage imports.
Part of that is to repaint cars to the Japanese "standard" for new cars. That's probably why Anthony has seen so many repainted Porsches coming from Japan.
There's other things that I can't recall but there's lots of hoops for manufacturers to jump through. The end result is to throttle down the number of cars that get imported.
I will offer a different point of view on Japanese sourced cars, since I lived in Tokyo for a few years beginning 2004, and purchased many cars there including Ferrari, Porsche, and BMW. First, it is inherent in the culture to respect, almost revere, mechanical excellence, like cars.I have lived in many cities, including New York, Chicago, and Hong Kong, and Tokyo is the only large city where I am comfortable leaving a sports car on the street unlocked. I remember one argument where I wanted to change the exhaust system on one of the cars to a globally known brand - my SA argued with me (usually unheard of in Japan), he pleaded with me to keep the car stock. Our compromise was that he would carefully remove the stock system, clean it and pack it, as he was certain that I would eventually bring the car back to full authenticity.
The cars I have been fortunate enough to buy there have been the cleanest, most authentic cars I have come across - and I have purchased both in the U.S. and European markets.
What buyers in other countries are seeing wrt to non-authentic cars is the result of at least two forces at work - One, there is definitely a large sub-culture for modding cars, but these are usually done by younger people, usually on less expensive cars.
Two, and far more important, beginning about 2009 American and European exporters set up shop in Tokyo to export cars, especially Porsches and BMWs. My dealers started complaining in 2009 that they would be visited 2 or 3 times a day by these exporters, who would not necessarily care for the quality of the cars, but focus more on expedited transactions. Thus, usually, the lower quality, repainted cars would be the first to go. The most authentic, the most beautiful cars, always remained in Tokyo, in strong owners' hands. Again, part of the culture is to respect mechanical
excellence and authenticity, and there are many very wealthy Japanese car collectors.
Your milage may vary.
I attach a photo of my Tokyo sourced 964 Turbo S Leichtbau - completely trouble free for well over a decade, completely authentic (except for the forged Jim D wheels), and I continue to believe what my Tokyo collector friend told me when he sold me the car - "even rain has never touched this car" (under my care, rain has definitely touched the car).
You have the luxury of knowing people there you can trust and see these cars first hand. I have seen some very nice examples come from Japan but all were priced in the stratosphere and rightfully so. The rest and on average from what I have seen are nice cars but are far from original mostly with multiple layers of paint or have been flogged pretty hard and put away wet. I will say that the average car is still better than many I see for sale here but it is very hard to tell what you are getting until it is in your possession. No doubt there are extremes as in any of these markets.
I completely agree Cobalt. They have some of the best in Japan, but unfortunately because of what has happened to the "export" market, it is often the bottom of the market that is shipped out. So you have to almost look at it on a car by car basis.
On one hand if you can connect to the insiders including previous owners, you will mostly find open enthusiasts who can you give you a granular history of the car. It is absolutely true, however, that unlike the U.S., the Japan privacy laws make it almost impossible for a third party to identify, much less contact, previous owners. And high end dealers will absolutely protect the privacy of previous owners.
First, the BIG question: Are you asking about a 3.6? or a 3.3?
I will assume you are asking about a 3.3 ....
Without all the details on maintenance history, whether it needs more attention now (PPI), condition of paint, interior, etc etc,... I would say the range is anywhere from $140k CAD, to $240k CAD.
Mine has 80k miles,... so just because this car is at 95k miles, does not mean it "should" be inexpensive.
with more insight into the cars condition,.... I'm sure we could narrow the range
3.3 turbo
with records going back to 1998 . Major service just done. GP white on black
How much would you guys pay for a 964 turbo with 95000 miles . 2 small claims on rear bumper 10-20 years ago?
Originally Posted by bweSteve
so much more data needed.
First, the BIG question: Are you asking about a 3.6? or a 3.3?
I will assume you are asking about a 3.3 ....
Without all the details on maintenance history, whether it needs more attention now (PPI), condition of paint, interior, etc etc,... I would say the range is anywhere from $140k CAD, to $240k CAD.
Mine has 80k miles,... so just because this car is at 95k miles, does not mean it "should" be inexpensive.
with more insight into the cars condition,.... I'm sure we could narrow the range
Originally Posted by revolution993
3.3 turbo
with records going back to 1998 . Major service just done. GP white on black
well,... first let me preface that my guesstimations in this market (but not for 964 Turbo's, but over in the 997 GT3 world),... have been way low. I don't seem to under stand this latest craze on BaT & PCarMarket, the willingness of people to spend GOBS of cash for a car that they have never even laid eyes on. There seems to be SO much money just laying around in people's investment accounts, that they are paying stupid money for even marginal cars. The short supply these days is creating a frenzy.
So maybe I am not the best person to judge what someone would pay for that car.
But if I had to throw a boomerang out there,... and if the car were in really great shape with 95k miles (which is still a very good mileage number in my opinion),... I'd pay $190k CAD ($150k US).
hope that helps. and if it doesn't, then just ignore it. I will not take offense
well,... first let me preface that my guesstimations in this market (but not for 964 Turbo's, but over in the 997 GT3 world),... have been way low. I don't seem to under stand this latest craze on BaT & PCarMarket, the willingness of people to spend GOBS of cash for a car that they have never even laid eyes on. There seems to be SO much money just laying around in people's investment accounts, that they are paying stupid money for even marginal cars. The short supply these days is creating a frenzy.
So maybe I am not the best person to judge what someone would pay for that car.
But if I had to throw a boomerang out there,... and if the car were in really great shape with 95k miles (which is still a very good mileage number in my opinion),... I'd pay $190k CAD ($150k US).
hope that helps. and if it doesn't, then just ignore it. I will not take offense
sounds about right. Maybe ill hold on few more years 🤣🤣
The market is all over the place and UP, and then in these auctions you get a couple of folks and they just bid up.
The 3.3L was hyped up with the “special wishes” blah blah, photographed well, BAT is nuts; personally I wouldn’t pay $125k for it in any market with that red interior.
The 3.6L was a little rougher around the edges, higher mileage, not as well photographed, and the seller was a dealer and did his best to answer questions. It was over once Cobalt start picking the COA apart. I think it sold Ok.
this is a stupid situation. there is few cars for sale and this examples are not perfect. worn seats with only xxx miles.
door hinges glued in a clean carfax example and so on. most of this cars i would not even have a look on it if they popped up on the usual platforms. wrong parts, modifcations, unknown history, ...
in this tiniy market there is almost no perfect example. the prices payed on bat etc. are crazy but push good cars to the sky. good for those who own one: cobalt, ...
buyers are crazy: for a coyote ugly interior they pay a premium. so my black supple leather sport seats (special wishes) are worth more than a new tycan, i think (-@
this is a stupid situation. there is few cars for sale and this examples are not perfect.
The obsession with finding the "perfect" car is driving a lot of this, along with lack of supply. These cars are all around 30 years old; there will be less than perfect examples in the world. I suppose if you really want a 965 and you're tired of waiting, you jump on something that you find acceptable.
The question is how long will prices continue to escalate at this steep rate?
09-15-2021, 11:45 AM
I think it sold Ok.
