964 Turbo market
#16
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I'll be very upfront in that I've been offered $125k and turned it down. Call me crazy but find me one for $125k like mine and I'll buy it. A few months ago Orbit racing performed a full PPI on the car for a buyer at that price and they were extremely impressed with the car. My gut was telling me no and after some back and forth I walked. The market for a lot of collector cars is very fluid and what was a good/expensive price a few months ago is considered cheap now. Look at the 997 GT3 market for example. In the end, I have way too much invested both financially and emotionally to sell unless the offer is compelling. As things go these cars will not be worth less in the future especially as you see prices for nice NB 964's creeping up to these numbers.
#18
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I'll be very upfront in that I've been offered $125k and turned it down. Call me crazy but find me one for $125k like mine and I'll buy it. A few months ago Orbit racing performed a full PPI on the car for a buyer at that price and they were extremely impressed with the car. My gut was telling me no and after some back and forth I walked. The market for a lot of collector cars is very fluid and what was a good/expensive price a few months ago is considered cheap now. Look at the 997 GT3 market for example. In the end, I have way too much invested both financially and emotionally to sell unless the offer is compelling. As things go these cars will not be worth less in the future especially as you see prices for nice NB 964's creeping up to these numbers.
#19
there is no market for this cars. if you have a good example and do anything needed you will finally loose no money. thats it. this is way more than most other collector cars - but no way to earn money at all. there is some flipppers and dealers that do so. but for the rest of us it is only a cost free hobby.
bought mine at 45thousand miles for about 34 thousand dollars 12years ago. since then i invested small money and big money. i could sell arround 75thousand (if i wanted) without loosing money. BUT: i would never be able to buy any similar car. and that is the point. value of money degreases over the last decade. so if you sell now you need to buy another car imediate - or add some money. .
to make a personal win ( buy a gt2 or ferrari or lambo) i had to sell arround 220000 - this will be the price in a few years. not now. and do not forget about rarity. over here in germany there is about 220 cars left. most sit on the shelf of dealers. a a new gt2, lambo or ferrary will never be thst rare. so on the long distance our cars are the one to keep. not only the value, rhe rarity, the image and the driving is outstanding.
my two cents
bought mine at 45thousand miles for about 34 thousand dollars 12years ago. since then i invested small money and big money. i could sell arround 75thousand (if i wanted) without loosing money. BUT: i would never be able to buy any similar car. and that is the point. value of money degreases over the last decade. so if you sell now you need to buy another car imediate - or add some money. .
to make a personal win ( buy a gt2 or ferrari or lambo) i had to sell arround 220000 - this will be the price in a few years. not now. and do not forget about rarity. over here in germany there is about 220 cars left. most sit on the shelf of dealers. a a new gt2, lambo or ferrary will never be thst rare. so on the long distance our cars are the one to keep. not only the value, rhe rarity, the image and the driving is outstanding.
my two cents
#21
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Does that include drivers? I’m curious what it costs now for a well maintained 3.3 driver. Not a collectible, something I could drive and enjoy with little things here and there to fix. Still 6 figures?
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heliolps2 (12-19-2020)
#23
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I haven't seen a decent 964T come up for sale in a very long time. I think that's the problem with all cars these days: supply and demand. Everyone is buying and nobody is selling.
#24
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Peter from Germany put it very well above. I just re-read his post from November 7th (post 19), and all of what he says also applies & makes sense here in the US.
... and yes, I agree with the current market for these cars. And in my own situation, I own a US '91 3.3 - which even Cobalt & others who have seen my car, it is in very good shape even with the 80k miles. I have spent a LOT of money on the car over the 15 yrs of ownership, and mechanically & cosmetically it is in tip top shape (probably between a 1 and a 2 rating on the scale).
Soooo,... even though there is no "comps" on the market to compare against,... the estimated pricing becomes just speculation from those of us who own them + the dealers who are trying to sell one + what the buyers are willing to pay. And that LAST part is why there are none selling out there. I for one would not sell mine for less than $130k,.. and yet for $130K, you could get a high mileage (30k ish) miles) 2010 997.2 GT3 RS, or,... you could even buy a regular GT3 from 2010, and have money left over. and THOSE cars will be seeing value increases over the next 5 - 10 years!!.
So that means that people are not buying either. Once they research & determine what our cars might cost them,... they move on. They go buy something else.
So for someone like me who loves to DRIVE mine, and still puts a thousand+ miles on it every year,... with no plans to sell,... then in the end it just does not matter. I do not care what the current value of my car is (other than for insurance protection reasons). More than likely my car will pass down to my son who loves it. That is ALL that matters to me. I plan to drive my cars for as long as my body will let me.
my .02
... and yes, I agree with the current market for these cars. And in my own situation, I own a US '91 3.3 - which even Cobalt & others who have seen my car, it is in very good shape even with the 80k miles. I have spent a LOT of money on the car over the 15 yrs of ownership, and mechanically & cosmetically it is in tip top shape (probably between a 1 and a 2 rating on the scale).
Soooo,... even though there is no "comps" on the market to compare against,... the estimated pricing becomes just speculation from those of us who own them + the dealers who are trying to sell one + what the buyers are willing to pay. And that LAST part is why there are none selling out there. I for one would not sell mine for less than $130k,.. and yet for $130K, you could get a high mileage (30k ish) miles) 2010 997.2 GT3 RS, or,... you could even buy a regular GT3 from 2010, and have money left over. and THOSE cars will be seeing value increases over the next 5 - 10 years!!.
So that means that people are not buying either. Once they research & determine what our cars might cost them,... they move on. They go buy something else.
So for someone like me who loves to DRIVE mine, and still puts a thousand+ miles on it every year,... with no plans to sell,... then in the end it just does not matter. I do not care what the current value of my car is (other than for insurance protection reasons). More than likely my car will pass down to my son who loves it. That is ALL that matters to me. I plan to drive my cars for as long as my body will let me.
my .02
Last edited by bweSteve; 12-20-2020 at 12:52 PM.
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heliolps2 (12-20-2020)
#25
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I own a US '91 3.3 - which even Cobalt & others who have seen my car, it is in very good shape even with the 80k miles. I have spent a LOT of money on the car over the 15 yrs of ownership, and mechanically & cosmetically it is in tip top shape (probably between a 1 and a 2 rating on the scale).
Soooo,... even though there is no "comps" on the market to compare against,... the estimated pricing becomes just speculation from those of us who own them + the dealers who are trying to sell one + what the buyers are willing to pay. And that LAST part is why there are none selling out there. I for one would not sell mine for less than $130k,.. and yet for $130K, you could get a high mileage (30k ish) miles) 2010 997.2 GT3 RS, or,... you could even buy a regular GT3 from 2010, and have money left over. and THOSE cars will be seeing value increases over the next 5 - 10 years!!.
So that means that people are not buying either. Once they research & determine what our cars might cost them,... they move on. They go buy something else.
So for someone like me who loves to DRIVE mine, and still puts a thousand+ miles on it every year,... with no plans to sell,... then in the end it just does not matter. I do not care what the current value of my car is (other than for insurance protection reasons). More than likely my car will pass down to my son who loves it. That is ALL that matters to me. I plan to drive my cars for as long as my body will let me.
Soooo,... even though there is no "comps" on the market to compare against,... the estimated pricing becomes just speculation from those of us who own them + the dealers who are trying to sell one + what the buyers are willing to pay. And that LAST part is why there are none selling out there. I for one would not sell mine for less than $130k,.. and yet for $130K, you could get a high mileage (30k ish) miles) 2010 997.2 GT3 RS, or,... you could even buy a regular GT3 from 2010, and have money left over. and THOSE cars will be seeing value increases over the next 5 - 10 years!!.
So that means that people are not buying either. Once they research & determine what our cars might cost them,... they move on. They go buy something else.
So for someone like me who loves to DRIVE mine, and still puts a thousand+ miles on it every year,... with no plans to sell,... then in the end it just does not matter. I do not care what the current value of my car is (other than for insurance protection reasons). More than likely my car will pass down to my son who loves it. That is ALL that matters to me. I plan to drive my cars for as long as my body will let me.
I've thought of selling from time to time; dalliances with possible Ferrari ownership, but no Ferrari that I could afford would be as rare or as interesting to me as a 965.
I've spared no expense to make my car as perfect mechanically and cosmetically, also enhancing performance. Mine just turned over 80,000 miles also. My son says it is his inheritance, so I assume that I won't be ever selling.
Last edited by Metal Guru; 12-20-2020 at 10:05 PM.
#26
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Lol,.. I'm sure Paul, you & I are not the only ones. ... hence the trouble folks have, when coming upon their own decision to start searching for a 965.
964 Turbo's are such a unique moment in time, such a unique body shape, and imo truly have all the rawness of a 930, but with all the extra refinements that we know & love.
So what does a potential buyer do? ... If I were a buyer, and wanted a wide body turbo from that era,... I would look for a 930. There are a lot more of them, and the prices have finally stabilized.
just my .02
964 Turbo's are such a unique moment in time, such a unique body shape, and imo truly have all the rawness of a 930, but with all the extra refinements that we know & love.
So what does a potential buyer do? ... If I were a buyer, and wanted a wide body turbo from that era,... I would look for a 930. There are a lot more of them, and the prices have finally stabilized.
just my .02
#27
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So for someone like me who loves to DRIVE mine, and still puts a thousand+ miles on it every year,... with no plans to sell,... then in the end it just does not matter. I do not care what the current value of my car is (other than for insurance protection reasons). More than likely my car will pass down to my son who loves it. That is ALL that matters to me. I plan to drive my cars for as long as my body will let me.
Lol,.. I'm sure Paul, you & I are not the only ones. ... hence the trouble folks have, when coming upon their own decision to start searching for a 965.
964 Turbo's are such a unique moment in time, such a unique body shape, and imo truly have all the rawness of a 930, but with all the extra refinements that we know & love.
So what does a potential buyer do? ... If I were a buyer, and wanted a wide body turbo from that era,... I would look for a 930. There are a lot more of them, and the prices have finally stabilized.
just my .02
964 Turbo's are such a unique moment in time, such a unique body shape, and imo truly have all the rawness of a 930, but with all the extra refinements that we know & love.
So what does a potential buyer do? ... If I were a buyer, and wanted a wide body turbo from that era,... I would look for a 930. There are a lot more of them, and the prices have finally stabilized.
just my .02
I am seeing people offering 6 figures for SC cabs that are just raw shells now. They will plunk down the coin to buy the car and have it completely finished but will have a full documented build with an odo that reads 190k+ miles. If they are willing to put this much into an SC cab I suspect that a 965 in similar situation will bring quite a bit more irrespective what the odo reads. I don't think nostalgia is going away soon. In fact it seems to be on the rise as cars become more electrified and gadget oriented.
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It seems this line of thinking is going across nearly every car made that was a good, fun ride. Prices of just about anything from Fox bodied mustangs, NSX's, really any Japanese 80's-90's Turbo car, etc. have popped and inventories are low. I lament every car I've sold as each is worth a handsome amount more than what I sold them for and, while I can live with that, you cannot find a replacement if you decided to get back in. That's the part on my 965 that keeps me in it; the fact that I am not finding another one. All these cars are amazingly honest and analog when compared to virtually any car you can buy today. The weight and overall size of today's super/hyper cars is pretty pathetic. Not to mention playing engine sounds through the radio, electric steering, auto rev-matching, more electronic nannys than you can remember, etc. and I doubt I'll be buying anything new for a long time.
Last edited by bmwtmx; 12-21-2020 at 01:11 PM.
#29
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Lol,.. I'm sure Paul, you & I are not the only ones. ... hence the trouble folks have, when coming upon their own decision to start searching for a 965.
964 Turbo's are such a unique moment in time, such a unique body shape, and imo truly have all the rawness of a 930, but with all the extra refinements that we know & love.
So what does a potential buyer do? ... If I were a buyer, and wanted a wide body turbo from that era,... I would look for a 930. There are a lot more of them, and the prices have finally stabilized.
just my .02
964 Turbo's are such a unique moment in time, such a unique body shape, and imo truly have all the rawness of a 930, but with all the extra refinements that we know & love.
So what does a potential buyer do? ... If I were a buyer, and wanted a wide body turbo from that era,... I would look for a 930. There are a lot more of them, and the prices have finally stabilized.
just my .02
I have an opportunity to get into a 930, but thinking about it and recent discussion on 965s in the 964 forum made me wonder if a 3.3 was in reach for a little more. However, if drivers are 120k, then I guess it’ll always be just a dream.
#30
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I agree with all the points you guys have made above. And I especially agree with Tony on the comparisons and justification.
BUT, I also feel that it is coming from a guy (who also like me) who already owns one.
Back when I was considering the purchase, I drove both the 915 930-trans in a 930, as well as the 5-speed G50 trans. Once I drove the G50 there was no looking back for me. I then drove 3 more before I finally found my car. And I did not have to drive any further than 50 miles from my house to go see & drive those cars. But back then, that's how many were out there to choose from. Definitely not the case now.
But I say all that, because I am not clear that the 4-speed 930 trans is completely out of the question for some guys that want the wide body style from back then. @Sirenty If I were you, I'd certainly go out & drive the 4-speed 930 (if you haven't done that already). Ya never know, the taller gears may make you happy. It certainly allows you more time to wring out every gear, verses more shifting that we get in the G50. But for me, I also knew that I really wanted to do most of my driving on the back twisty B roads. So the G50 was going to better suit my driving needs. But if you are not going to push your car hard, maybe the 915 would be fine,... and then you get all the rest of the ownership pleasure in owning the wide body from that era.
There is also the many discussions that have occurred over on the 930 RL threads, about migrating a 930 car to the G50 trans,... but from what I've heard, the different length bell housings can make that a difficult transition (& probably to the tune of another $8K investment). at that point, like Cobalt said, if you must have a 5-speed, then you might as well spend the extra cash & buy the 964 Turbo. It would certainly be worth more at the end of your ownership (even if like the rest of us, you pass it down to your next generation).
Anyway,... I just think there may be a stepping stone to getting to the final end-goal. Maybe a 930 now, gets you closer. Not perfect, or the ultimate end-goal,.. but we all know once you own it, and are willing to then sell-it to upgrade, our spouses are much more likely to agree when you only need to add another $20k or so to the pot, to trade up from a 930 to a 964 Turbo.
food for thought.
BUT, I also feel that it is coming from a guy (who also like me) who already owns one.
Back when I was considering the purchase, I drove both the 915 930-trans in a 930, as well as the 5-speed G50 trans. Once I drove the G50 there was no looking back for me. I then drove 3 more before I finally found my car. And I did not have to drive any further than 50 miles from my house to go see & drive those cars. But back then, that's how many were out there to choose from. Definitely not the case now.
But I say all that, because I am not clear that the 4-speed 930 trans is completely out of the question for some guys that want the wide body style from back then. @Sirenty If I were you, I'd certainly go out & drive the 4-speed 930 (if you haven't done that already). Ya never know, the taller gears may make you happy. It certainly allows you more time to wring out every gear, verses more shifting that we get in the G50. But for me, I also knew that I really wanted to do most of my driving on the back twisty B roads. So the G50 was going to better suit my driving needs. But if you are not going to push your car hard, maybe the 915 would be fine,... and then you get all the rest of the ownership pleasure in owning the wide body from that era.
There is also the many discussions that have occurred over on the 930 RL threads, about migrating a 930 car to the G50 trans,... but from what I've heard, the different length bell housings can make that a difficult transition (& probably to the tune of another $8K investment). at that point, like Cobalt said, if you must have a 5-speed, then you might as well spend the extra cash & buy the 964 Turbo. It would certainly be worth more at the end of your ownership (even if like the rest of us, you pass it down to your next generation).
Anyway,... I just think there may be a stepping stone to getting to the final end-goal. Maybe a 930 now, gets you closer. Not perfect, or the ultimate end-goal,.. but we all know once you own it, and are willing to then sell-it to upgrade, our spouses are much more likely to agree when you only need to add another $20k or so to the pot, to trade up from a 930 to a 964 Turbo.
food for thought.
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Sirenty (12-21-2020)