spooky69

Great thread.

Goughary

Fast forward now how many years? How many madnesses in between?

Just a quick update from Lake Porshbegon...i have a lot going on and seemingly too many of other peoples cars to ever get to mine, let alone the fantastically large pile of cash i keep shoveling i to the the center console. Although, funny thing....everytime i look in my center console, the money is gone? Relate much?

So here is what's next on the horizon, and not next week....but coming

Another member sold me his g64 and front diff and torque tube a while back- but down in Houston. Those are now on their way here. So October arrival. In the meantime, I've sourced new 3, 4, and 5th gears for that g64...so trans madness is coming.

The front diff- if anyone wants to see the innards- I'll take that apart and do a front diff madness build if you all want to see.

The torque tube- god only knows. Do they ever go? I've only heard of one person ever so much as changing bearings in one.
But what if we made a composite torque tube? Is that possible? Would we like the weight savings? Would it be reliable? Hmmmmm

I bought a short shift kit from fd motorsport a few weeks back. And i had fully intended to toss that in my car- it was actually a test for another guy that was wavering on his purchase- so i figured I'd throw it in my car and then he could figure if he wanted that one or another....but then Greg of the ensojoebigmikegregg car fame, went and bought one as well, so rather than wait for his to arrive, we threw my fd awd short shift (different than the 2wd version) into his car with the idea that when his arrives in the mail, it would drop to me. Which it has.













Greg was under there yet again earning his dbfd badge...



Word to the wise. E clip tools are helpful. And replace the clips with new when you do the job. I have never figured out a good way to deal with the compression washers on this install. But it finds it's way.

Anyway- mine is going in as soon as i get time. Hats off to Darin Fister at FD. First for his incredible ability to respond to questions. Straight answers, timely response. Respectful. The kid of business that seems to actually appreciate its clientele. And secondly, and probably more important, although for me that first part is more important...the quality of the product is outstanding. Plus, this awd version doesn't shorten the throw too much, which is exactly what i wanted. Highly recommend over all others I've seen thus far.

Then- i have the 9meister midweight flywheel to install. That will be going in with the g64 once that's rebult and regeared.

Distributor madness. Long promised but never done- i did rebuild a few in between- but i have assembled all the parts, the bearings, the new hall sensors- all of it...just haven't the time to dedicate to get that one done. My belt is too new, so I'm waiting for someone to need a very perfect very new distributor. But it's coming.

Then, and now we maybe get to something more appropriate to this thread and I'll be adding it here, is the brake and suspension upgrade on top of the previous upgrades. I have most of the parts - 993 c2 front and rear brakes. 993 front uprights- neither are big red or rs. These are the normal c2 larger front calipers and regular alluminum front uprights. Bbi ball joints- I'll do rs tie rods at that time...work with brake bias etc. also will rebuild my abs unit and show how to rehab and unfreeze the abs pistons so you no longer have to buy the mercedes unit (I've already done this, worked well). My brake master has to go, so I'll be upgrading to an rs hydraulic unit.

I forgot to mention i put a 993 steering rack in the car last year. Has some benefits - i wouldn't suggest doing that again. Although the slightly quicker ratio is nice. What is really like to do is get a rack that is even quicker and swap that into the same housing. But it's very hard to find zf rack information.

That's the update from Lake Porshbegon

As to so much of the strut commentary of yore...i have to say, now having driven hundred of setups- here is the definitive list:

Remember- these are for a street car:

Oem but better- bilstein b6/eibach or hr sport springs. So when the old ones go- this is the way. For regular sorta sporty sorta soft.

For a bit sportier - bilstein pss10. Don't listen to the knumbnuckles that tell you otherwise.

Next up- motion control. Awesome in so many ways. This is the step up for sport.

All around plus sport: the hands down winner:
Ohlin road and track. Worth every penny. If i had to go back and do it again. It's the only thing i would buy. And if i felt them too expensive, I'd wait like my teenage self saving for the Colnago i always wanted...and when my piggy bank was full, I'd smash that pig and buy ohlins. They are shockingly better.

If you want to track the car. Call Anze Suspensions and have them build you a set of what you need for your use case. Wont be cheep, but you're likely going to end up with four way custom valved Ohlins if you are lucky.

Did you notice who is missing from the list? When mine go, they are being thrown away. Although when they are dialed in, they do work well enough. They just don't live up to the hype or the expectation. Or the price.

That's it outa me...if any of you have done or are doing anything interesting with the suspension, chassis, and brakes , please bring it. I'd love to hear what's going on out there.

Carbon fiber cup 1 wheels perhaps?

willmip

I'm taking my G64 out this winter and getting it rebuilt too. It's on 130,000 miles now, with 1st, 2nd, 3rd starting to protest a bit. I've discussed with the workshop possibly doing the planetary gear weld as well. We shall see.

I also have the 9M MWFW to go in once I've recovered from the rebuild bill.

Look forward to seeing pics of your work in progress.

ETA - do you have any spare DBFD boot badges?!

Goughary

That dbfd badge- i think i should make more. They were a short run for a group of guys- mostly the original dbfd crew from suspension madness - where it all got made up in the first place-

We did the badges because everyone was learning and as they graduated school on their cars, they received their badge...one of your countrymen actually has one , and it may have crossed the pond...so someday you may find it in a swap meet , and you will be the only one who knows!

On the planetary gear- don't be shy there. Make sure it gets welded. Take two seconds to do. The trans is open. And it's right there in front. Adds almost no real money to the job.

130k is not a huge amount of miles, but depending on frequency of oil changes and types of oil used, be careful to choose someone that knows how to and has the tool to measure the diff clutch packs. They are expensive to replace and if they are in spec, keep what you have. Out of spec, out they go.

There is a company in France that has gears for you if you decide to regear. I'm very excited for mine to not be what it currently is...which is terrible from second to third...so I'm bringing 3rd 4th and 5th down to make it more drivable.

If your car has a ton of power or if you sometimes track it- you can replace the axle flanges with C4 Widebody flanges and change your inner cv joints to the larger c2 inner cv joints that are held on by m10 bolts, and you have a bit more robust inner CV at that point.

Just a few things to mull over....

misteralz

Fantastic thread, it's taken me a few days here and there to read it all. Currently got a set of B6s waiting in the wings for my C4, with a set of H&R springs on their way. As well as a Wiechers front strutbrace. And now I'm thinking it's autumn and it's not coming out again until the spring, so what else should I do 'while I'm in there'?

jon91581

Can't wait for the gearbox madness findings! I've also got a 9meister midweight flywheel ready to go in when it's time to drop the motor/transmission. Also very interested in how you like the gear set you found. My car is pretty much strictly a fun, road car, but I'd love to find a "Goldilocks" gear set for 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

Seriously love the content you put out, and it's so helpful to us that are excited to work on our cars, but also intimidated about working on these things.

A bit more on topic, after wearing out my Bilstein B6 setup, I moved over to the Ohlins R&T setup with the front top mounts. I was nervous spending that kind of money for an off the shelf setup, but I think your assessment about what's available for our cars is spot on. I wasn't a fan of how the Bilsteins handled small bump compliance, and they always seemed a little l unrefined to me. I'm very happy with the Ohlins, and briefly considered an MCS setup, but just didn't feel confident enough that I'd get the setup right or need/know how to adjust and set it up properly. Even the Ohlins setup took a small leap of faith as there just aren't very many opinions/reviews of them on our cars.

Again, thanks for the content. It's much appreciated and so very helpful at keeping my center console empty.

Goughary

Depends on the needs. You might consider rs tie rods and a rack brace and poly rack bushings. That makes a considerable difference to tighten up the steering.

Sport rubber bushings will be a good improvement, only needed in the front. But once you make that decision you begin to open a large can of worms and you dig deep into cost.

Bottom line - Porsche designed the suspension on this car, from a function/ geometry perspective, very well. And then they gave it alot of room to wiggle and flex, which affects how it should work.

When you think through how you want the car to feel, start with areas you can take out slop, you go somewhere btw monoball harshness and oem squishy. You don't need to go past the midpoint there. Don't make the car harsh.

Then- when the components are able to move the way they designed it on paper, you can start to ask your struts/springs, and swaybars to do their jobs, because then, when they are doing their jobs, you've given them an environment in which they can do that job well.

But- you then have to really think about how those components work together. Which is the longer conversation and needs to be had with someone that can hear how you want the car to feel and how you drive...and you'll match struts, springs and sways to work with that.

I think i may have just gone on a long tangent...most of which was irrelevant.

However- you have b6 waiting. I prefered eibach sport springs w the b6 over the h&r sport and the stiffer h&r as well. The stiffer h&r were way too much for the b6 in my opinion.
But the regular eibach were a rising rate spring and back then, i had a c2 rear swaybar on my c4 and they were a great combo for street sport comfort type running around. And because the car actually rolled over in corners, they and the suspension were allowed to do their jobs. And it felt faster at slower speeds.

If you want to make a minimal amount of change to go with the b6, go with rs inner front tie rods and poly rack bushings and a rack brace first. Then monoball top hats in the rear to replace the sloppy oem hats. Oem front hats are very good. So unless you need more camber, no need to go nuts up front.

Next up would be sport rubber front control arm bushings.
And after that, tarret spring plates for the rear, and the only reason i follow with those is personal taste. They help tremendously to reduce weissach effect, which honestly is probably a good thing for street driving. I hate it and would rather it not be there. Those tarret plates are stiff and take out a lot of movement of the control arm. They also allow for much easier and more easily accurate rear alignment.
But- and this is true, along with a side helping of unfortunate- they are entirely unnecessary. But, in my mind, they are needed "if" one wants to achieve something specific, that one doesn't need...but that one wants.

Last note, Since I'm rolling down a hill...one of the cars I've enjoyed driving the most, was a cab i did a few years ago. Very simple setup. H&R rear swaybar (it was a c2), set to the softer setting . Oem front swaybar. B6 struts w h&r springs. Monoball top hats in the rear. Sport runber bushings up front. And i think we had tarret end links up front as well. Rs tierods, rack brace and poly bushings as stated above...
RS +10 rise height, -1 degree negative camber up front, -1.2 rear, stock toe settings. Max caster in front. All else stock.

I think we have approximately 10 thousand posts in this thread- and that cab i just described, in its own "cab cowl roll soft shakey" way, felt more fun and handled as well (but different), than any other car I've done. With the simplest of formula. The brief had been, "i want to have fun when i want to have fun, but when i take my wife to dinner in it, i don't want her not liking the drive to the restaurant". And we hit that spot on. Great car. Bottom line...always ask how you want it to feel. All else with follow in terms of what needs to be done.

misteralz

I think that you've described exactly what I'm after, tbh. Fun, sharp, but not bone-jarring. I'll look at the rack mounts and leave the rest until next year. I'd already decided on RS+10-15ish as a starting point. Front bushes look okay.

Goughary

If you do the poly rack bushings, add the rack brace at that time. The job isn't something you want to go back and do again. Plus the rack brace is inexpensive...so may as well.

misteralz

What's the difference between RS and C4 tie rods? And do I need to change anything else? Rack brace looks a good idea.

Goughary

C4 tie rods are a one way bushing, which are fine when adjusted properly. The tarret rs tie rods i mentioned are a monoball, and they are the best way to go. They don't increase nvh in any real way, and the steering is much more direct.

misteralz

Gotta admit, I went and had a Bing after posting that just to satisfy my own curiosity and Jesus T. Christ, 'normal' 964 tierods look like something off a 2CV. I'll look at getting proper ones from that Slovenian mob. Or spend some time with parts catalogues trying to find something that fits that isn't 190€ per side! That's insane money for what it is.
Rack bushes and brace added to the list.

Goughary

Can you post some Slovenian mob pics?

misteralz

https://partworks.de/en-en-en-en-par...optimized.html

Goughary

Looks to be the same as the Tarret units. Not much difference in price- 378 euro vs 398 dollars...

But, regardless, those are the ones i was referencing earlier. They make a noticeable difference in the tightness and quickness of the steering.