Teardown begins. Suspension madness...
05-13-2016, 10:04 AM
#766
For a good approx on camber you don't need a gauge. If your floor is fairly level, you can use a large square or level (plumb) and measure the distance to a point on the top of the rim and to a point on the bottom of the rim. Then measure the distance between those points. A few trig operations will give you the camber.
05-13-2016, 10:42 AM
#767
Racer
Tools used for full suspension removal. If I miss any, pipe in, but I think we both kept good notes on everything we used:
1/2 drive ratchet
1/2 drive 18mm socket
1/2 drive 19mm deep wall socket
1/2 drive 19mm standard socket
1/2 drive 21mm socket (2 needed or one socket and one wrench)
1/2 drive 22mm socket
1/2 drive 10mm impact Allen socket
1/2 drive facom 10mm long Allen socket
1/2 drive facom long 6mm Allen socket
1/2 drive 12" extension
1/2 drive 6" extension
1/2 drive 19mm impact swivel socket
1/2 drive Impact gun
32mm Impact socket w 3" extension
1:3 torque multiplier
19mm box end wrench
17mm open end wrench
17mm box end wrench
16mm thin bicycle wrench
13mm box end wrench
11mm flare end wrench
11mm open end wrench
3/8 drive ratchet
3/8 drive 10mm 6pt socket
3/8 drive 13mm socket
3/8 drive 3" extension
3/8 drive 5mm Allen socket
3/8 drive 6mm long triple square socket (for early cars with triple square axle bolts)
M8 bolt for releasing the rotor
Wire clipper
Flat head screw driver
#2 Philips screwdriver
Ball joint separator
Ball joint fork
1/2 drive ratchet
1/2 drive 18mm socket
1/2 drive 19mm deep wall socket
1/2 drive 19mm standard socket
1/2 drive 21mm socket (2 needed or one socket and one wrench)
1/2 drive 22mm socket
1/2 drive 10mm impact Allen socket
1/2 drive facom 10mm long Allen socket
1/2 drive facom long 6mm Allen socket
1/2 drive 12" extension
1/2 drive 6" extension
1/2 drive 19mm impact swivel socket
1/2 drive Impact gun
32mm Impact socket w 3" extension
1:3 torque multiplier
19mm box end wrench
17mm open end wrench
17mm box end wrench
16mm thin bicycle wrench
13mm box end wrench
11mm flare end wrench
11mm open end wrench
3/8 drive ratchet
3/8 drive 10mm 6pt socket
3/8 drive 13mm socket
3/8 drive 3" extension
3/8 drive 5mm Allen socket
3/8 drive 6mm long triple square socket (for early cars with triple square axle bolts)
M8 bolt for releasing the rotor
Wire clipper
Flat head screw driver
#2 Philips screwdriver
Ball joint separator
Ball joint fork
This is an invaluable thread. I really appreciate your attention to detail and excellent photos. Keep up the good work.
05-13-2016, 01:10 PM
#769
Burning Brakes
and now for a bit of general commentary about spring plate bushings, and your typical "Porsche tech"...at the shop.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen on Facebook, or have been told "the shop told me my spring plate bushings need to be replaced", and then subsequently to hear that they bought either oem Porsche plates, which is truely a waste of money, or some other very expensive spring plate or expensive bushing from elephant.
Don't get me wrong, I like the elephant bushings a lot, and I have used them on each of the cars here...but...
And this is the big but...
Not one of them really had to be replaced. There were a couple that were loose. But nothing so terrible that I would have suggested going through all the expense just to change those plates/bushings.
There is a performance benefit to making the change, and I'm happy with that. But...since all these cars have been beaten on and driven and all but Darren's are very high miles...I'm just going to reiterate...
The likelihood of your spring plate bushings needing to be replaced, is very very small.
This is what your tech at the shop sees:
And because he, like all techs at most shops, has never touched a 964 spring plate, he tells you they need to be replaced, when your actual issue is elsewhere - more than likely. If that bushing is not making clanging noises, it's not dead. So don't let the inexperienced tech hack at the shop who knows 997 and 981 like the back of his hand, tell you to spend money on your 964- when he has only ever done an oil change on the two 964 he has ever seen...(exaggeration for effect)...and remember that our spring plates were only used on the 964. So not many have ever looked at them.
They look nasty. All that is, is a torn rubber boot. And there is grease and dirt in there. 99% of all 964 have ugly looking but non failed spring plate bushings. Change them for performance (less weissach effect) or change them if they fail...but don't change them just because someone sees a dirty failed dust boot.
And always if you are going to have them replaced, and they are going to toss them...send them to me instead of throwing them away. I'll rehab them and use them on another guys car w new bushings...
I can't tell you how many times I've seen on Facebook, or have been told "the shop told me my spring plate bushings need to be replaced", and then subsequently to hear that they bought either oem Porsche plates, which is truely a waste of money, or some other very expensive spring plate or expensive bushing from elephant.
Don't get me wrong, I like the elephant bushings a lot, and I have used them on each of the cars here...but...
And this is the big but...
Not one of them really had to be replaced. There were a couple that were loose. But nothing so terrible that I would have suggested going through all the expense just to change those plates/bushings.
There is a performance benefit to making the change, and I'm happy with that. But...since all these cars have been beaten on and driven and all but Darren's are very high miles...I'm just going to reiterate...
The likelihood of your spring plate bushings needing to be replaced, is very very small.
This is what your tech at the shop sees:
And because he, like all techs at most shops, has never touched a 964 spring plate, he tells you they need to be replaced, when your actual issue is elsewhere - more than likely. If that bushing is not making clanging noises, it's not dead. So don't let the inexperienced tech hack at the shop who knows 997 and 981 like the back of his hand, tell you to spend money on your 964- when he has only ever done an oil change on the two 964 he has ever seen...(exaggeration for effect)...and remember that our spring plates were only used on the 964. So not many have ever looked at them.
They look nasty. All that is, is a torn rubber boot. And there is grease and dirt in there. 99% of all 964 have ugly looking but non failed spring plate bushings. Change them for performance (less weissach effect) or change them if they fail...but don't change them just because someone sees a dirty failed dust boot.
And always if you are going to have them replaced, and they are going to toss them...send them to me instead of throwing them away. I'll rehab them and use them on another guys car w new bushings...
05-13-2016, 01:31 PM
#770
Race Car
Thread Starter
I agree. I looked high and low for silicone replacement boots, and then actually looked to design a set of boots. Demand isn't high enough to make it worth while. Best replacement I have found is elephant bushings. Although my understanding is that initially the erp spring plates are actually better performance wise...but I'm not convinced it's the right way to go for a sport/street type application. And so I'll stick w elephant.
05-13-2016, 01:33 PM
#772
Rennlist Member
They look nasty. All that is, is a torn rubber boot. And there is grease and dirt in there. 99% of all 964 have ugly looking but non failed spring plate bushings. Change them for performance (less weissach effect) or change them if they fail...but don't change them just because someone sees a dirty failed dust boot.
05-15-2016, 09:58 PM
#773
Race Car
Thread Starter
New inner and outer tie rods went in today.
No pics but I also cleaned the wheel wells front and rear. Dawn dishwashing liquid in an oil pan, and a toilet brush...soft bristle round head...gets the knooks and crannys. Lots of soap. Lots of water, lots of suds. Try to be a light and unabrasive as possible. Then after it sits a bit, grab the hose and spray it out. Repeat if necessary. This doesn't remove cosmoline. If you want to then remove the cosmoline, wd40 does a good job on that, and it breaks down the remaining oils...
In the rear of the car, if you remove all the oil and grease, you remove your only remaining rust protection.. .so might be good to invest in some waxoyl next winter.
No pics but I also cleaned the wheel wells front and rear. Dawn dishwashing liquid in an oil pan, and a toilet brush...soft bristle round head...gets the knooks and crannys. Lots of soap. Lots of water, lots of suds. Try to be a light and unabrasive as possible. Then after it sits a bit, grab the hose and spray it out. Repeat if necessary. This doesn't remove cosmoline. If you want to then remove the cosmoline, wd40 does a good job on that, and it breaks down the remaining oils...
In the rear of the car, if you remove all the oil and grease, you remove your only remaining rust protection.. .so might be good to invest in some waxoyl next winter.
05-17-2016, 12:46 AM
#776
Race Car
Thread Starter
Today was a long fun day of not a lot of work.
Started the day in new Milford at the third garage (restoration shop specializing in Porsche)...had a blast and always good to be with guys that have deep expertise...
Started the day in new Milford at the third garage (restoration shop specializing in Porsche)...had a blast and always good to be with guys that have deep expertise...
05-17-2016, 12:56 AM
#778
Race Car
Thread Starter
And then..the work part. kW hadn't gotten back so I started making phone calls.
What I wanted were upper perches from stance- but the size wasn't going to work at all. Unfortunate because what a great product..
And then I had found these perches from tuner toys. Very cool little product. And they make them in house. The inner diameter is 22mm, so fits over the shaft of the kW perfectly, allowing the elephant camber plate to seat properly on the shaft by allowing it to drop over the shoulder. These perches are for 63mm springs, so they offered to mill them down for a small fee, to 61mm which is a perfect fit for the helper springs on the kW. They are also going to mill me a conical spacer so the perch can hit the camber plate through its range of articulation. So problem solved and fringe benefit, needle bearings to handle the spring windup, which the kW don't have, but should...so I'm excited...
What I wanted were upper perches from stance- but the size wasn't going to work at all. Unfortunate because what a great product..
And then I had found these perches from tuner toys. Very cool little product. And they make them in house. The inner diameter is 22mm, so fits over the shaft of the kW perfectly, allowing the elephant camber plate to seat properly on the shaft by allowing it to drop over the shoulder. These perches are for 63mm springs, so they offered to mill them down for a small fee, to 61mm which is a perfect fit for the helper springs on the kW. They are also going to mill me a conical spacer so the perch can hit the camber plate through its range of articulation. So problem solved and fringe benefit, needle bearings to handle the spring windup, which the kW don't have, but should...so I'm excited...
05-17-2016, 07:51 PM
#779
Racer
It looks like you have it figured out.
I wonder if Ground Control makes a similar product as their spring perches for my audi TT looked exactly like the ones pictures above.
I wonder if Ground Control makes a similar product as their spring perches for my audi TT looked exactly like the ones pictures above.
05-18-2016, 01:31 AM
#780
Race Car
Thread Starter
Back seats are done. This must be confusing jumping from care to car. The pop out windows and the seat upholstery is Aja, Darren's car. Picking it up tomorrow...in the meantime, all the recent work has been on my car. And I'm almost ready for reassembly.
Waiting on the upper perches for my kW v3 struts. Had a talk w the machine shop today and they are milling the perches down to 61mm for me and we worked out the conical spacer today to mate properly to the thrust washer over the needle bearings on the perch and then to mate properly to the bottom of the elephant bushing in the camber plate. Done. They ship end of week. I'll have them installed early next.
Darren's car is done. Picking it up tomorrow. The hella jongerious fabric looks great. Rear seat pic came today. Can't wait to see it in person...
Waiting on the upper perches for my kW v3 struts. Had a talk w the machine shop today and they are milling the perches down to 61mm for me and we worked out the conical spacer today to mate properly to the thrust washer over the needle bearings on the perch and then to mate properly to the bottom of the elephant bushing in the camber plate. Done. They ship end of week. I'll have them installed early next.
Darren's car is done. Picking it up tomorrow. The hella jongerious fabric looks great. Rear seat pic came today. Can't wait to see it in person...