Singer on Jay Leno
12-26-2013, 03:23 AM
#61
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Yep, but that is not relevant as I'm not questioning the quality or man hours in each car.. For that there are cars that have had more hours in the build and are not as expensive.
Wait until the Singer cars are on the re-sale market. Just like any hot-rod, they have thousands of hours and tens of thousands in parts but they never get the fair market value on the resale.
Very soon after market parts will be available based on the Singer design.
For me that is a hot-rod shop at very high hourly rates that have found a niche product.
IMO No different than any other chopper...
Wait until the Singer cars are on the re-sale market. Just like any hot-rod, they have thousands of hours and tens of thousands in parts but they never get the fair market value on the resale.
Very soon after market parts will be available based on the Singer design.
For me that is a hot-rod shop at very high hourly rates that have found a niche product.
IMO No different than any other chopper...
On the issue of Singer making parts available to the market (parts based on Singer design don't count). I really hope that they do but even then you can't really recreate what a Singer is with only some of the components. It is a complete work that is actually greater than the sum of it's parts...at least in my mind. And to me THAT proves this car has soul and personality in a big, big way..
12-26-2013, 03:55 AM
#62
Being in the middle of a restoration/build project I find Singer work bold and very inspiring. I think their design is well thought through and build quality is excellent.
Anyone can disagree with their specific design, parts or process choices but you can not ignore or dismiss the car as a whole - that's silly.
Anyone can disagree with their specific design, parts or process choices but you can not ignore or dismiss the car as a whole - that's silly.
12-26-2013, 04:08 AM
#63
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Yep, but that is not relevant as I'm not questioning the quality or man hours in each car.. For that there are cars that have had more hours in the build and are not as expensive.
Wait until the Singer cars are on the re-sale market. Just like any hot-rod, they have thousands of hours and tens of thousands in parts but they never get the fair market value on the resale.
Very soon after market parts will be available based on the Singer design.
For me that is a hot-rod shop at very high hourly rates that have found a niche product.
IMO No different than any other chopper...
Wait until the Singer cars are on the re-sale market. Just like any hot-rod, they have thousands of hours and tens of thousands in parts but they never get the fair market value on the resale.
Very soon after market parts will be available based on the Singer design.
For me that is a hot-rod shop at very high hourly rates that have found a niche product.
IMO No different than any other chopper...
Based on your posts I do not think you fully understand the process on what it takes to build a Singer or what goes into it. It is what you do not see in the build that cost so much. Same goes for american pre-war hot rods.
The reason why most american pre-war hot rods never see fair market value is due to the builder, parts and specific details.
Well built pre war american hot rods can indeed see fair market value and are in demand depending on the builder.
Try finding a Brizio built 32 ford. They are expense to build and trade hands for 6 figures all day long on the used market. You wont find their stuff amongst the crap at barrett jackson either.
The Singer is the same.
Typically, the customer of a quailty builder who has a waiting list for their product should see fair market value of their build on the used market.
Like a custom built race car, the best can typically expect to see half of what they put into it during resale as rule of thumb.
A Singer on the used market will be interesting to watch but I doubt it will be anytime soon.
Any parts Singer may decide to retail to the public will be expensive and will not be enough to replicate one of their builds. Although they will be nice parts im sure.
12-26-2013, 09:23 AM
#64
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I know I am not alone here, but i think this car is worth every penny.
The level of work that goes into it and the parts used are top quality. I for one hope they do start selling parts to common folk like us, but at the same time I understand it may take away the exclusivity away...
For the nay sayers, I suggest watching the Chris Harris video on Singer and then make judgement.... This isn't a backyard chop shop by any means and these cars are definitely not without soul, one would be blind to think that after seeing that car go around the track...
The level of work that goes into it and the parts used are top quality. I for one hope they do start selling parts to common folk like us, but at the same time I understand it may take away the exclusivity away...
For the nay sayers, I suggest watching the Chris Harris video on Singer and then make judgement.... This isn't a backyard chop shop by any means and these cars are definitely not without soul, one would be blind to think that after seeing that car go around the track...
12-26-2013, 12:52 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
First car was on a 3.2 liter chassis, then they re-tooled for 964 cause of the torsion bars.
12-26-2013, 01:06 PM
#66
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The reason why most american pre-war hot rods never see fair market value is due to the builder, parts and specific details.
Well built pre war american hot rods can indeed see fair market value and are in demand depending on the builder.
Try finding a Brizio built 32 ford. They are expense to build and trade hands for 6 figures all day long on the used market. You wont find their stuff amongst the crap at barrett jackson either.
The Singer is the same.
Well built pre war american hot rods can indeed see fair market value and are in demand depending on the builder.
Try finding a Brizio built 32 ford. They are expense to build and trade hands for 6 figures all day long on the used market. You wont find their stuff amongst the crap at barrett jackson either.
The Singer is the same.
Typically, the customer of a quailty builder who has a waiting list for their product should see fair market value of their build on the used market.
Like a custom built race car, the best can typically expect to see half of what they put into it during resale as rule of thumb.
A Singer on the used market will be interesting to watch but I doubt it will be anytime soon.
Any parts Singer may decide to retail to the public will be expensive and will not be enough to replicate one of their builds. Although they will be nice parts im sure.
Like a custom built race car, the best can typically expect to see half of what they put into it during resale as rule of thumb.
A Singer on the used market will be interesting to watch but I doubt it will be anytime soon.
Any parts Singer may decide to retail to the public will be expensive and will not be enough to replicate one of their builds. Although they will be nice parts im sure.
Only time will tell... If I had the money of course I would buy one.. but as a Porsche owner/enthusiast I have seen that story before and a 911 will never be on that 'major league'
Maybe I should buy a K series plymouth and forget it in a barn..
12-26-2013, 05:07 PM
#67
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I do recognize the quality and labour in the build, absolutely amazing but a 911 is far from exotic and there are too many of them to be a comparable proposition to a Brizio 32 ford or similar..
Only time will tell... If I had the money of course I would buy one.. but as a Porsche owner/enthusiast I have seen that story before and a 911 will never be on that 'major league'
Maybe I should buy a K series plymouth and forget it in a barn..
Only time will tell... If I had the money of course I would buy one.. but as a Porsche owner/enthusiast I have seen that story before and a 911 will never be on that 'major league'
Maybe I should buy a K series plymouth and forget it in a barn..
The 911 body has been in production from 1964-1998.
Had the body only been produced from 1964-1973, perhaps it would be considered more "rare" then it is today and put the Singer price on par where it currently is.
Another case in point would be the Eagle Speedster based on the Jaguar E type. It is another mega dollar hot rod.
Last edited by tcsracing1; 12-27-2013 at 12:46 AM.
12-26-2013, 07:00 PM
#68
Technical Guru
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12-26-2013, 11:31 PM
#69
Nordschleife Master
This comment made me laugh and reminded me of a comment my dad always says. He's an avid street rodder since the 60s and still has his '27 Model T coupe street rod. Regardless, he always jokes that there are more 1932 Fords on the road today than in 1932 thanks to fiberglass and metal reproductions and just the general played out nature of the deuce coupe in the street rod scene.
12-27-2013, 12:50 AM
#70
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This comment made me laugh and reminded me of a comment my dad always says. He's an avid street rodder since the 60s and still has his '27 Model T coupe street rod. Regardless, he always jokes that there are more 1932 Fords on the road today than in 1932 thanks to fiberglass and metal reproductions and just the general played out nature of the deuce coupe in the street rod scene.
12-27-2013, 05:32 PM
#71
Harshness Disclaimer Applies:
There is nothing more dangerous in this world than people who express strong, confident opinions while having bad or no information to base them on. Which appears to be precisely the situation you are in. Your "opinion" should be disclaimed with "I'm just a tire kicker that doesn't know anything about these cars or restorations but here is what I think ..". That would then allow the appropriate level of filtering for readers.
The folks on this thread that believe they can build something similar from the parts bin have no idea what they are talking about and have obviously never seen or investigated the build process or components in the car. Again, cheap, uninformed opinions that thankfully come from folks that are not in the market for this product.
As a matter of fact, two of the Singer cars have been resold. The New York one most recently, for 200k over the original price. The other one was an earlier model and sold for 100k over.
There is currently a 2 year wait list for a build. The consequences of that are pretty obvious, including debunking your baseless statement that as a business their days are numbered.
In closing, there is a substantial list of buyers for this car because unlike every other tuner or home grown car, the Singer represents pure excellence both in build quality AND in driving experience. You can of course spend 1/2 the money or less and get something that looks somewhat similar from a distance, however as Michelangelo said, perfection is in the details, and the details will not be there when you look closely. So you could say you don't care about the details or don't value them, which is fine. Then again, you are probably the kind of person that has no issue buying a fake Patek Philippe with a chinese movement and feeling good about wearing it.
12-27-2013, 05:53 PM
#73
No problem! I started the thread in a different group where I more frequently visit. Here it is:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...storation.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...storation.html
12-27-2013, 07:14 PM
#74
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I'm a Singer owner to be, my build starts this Spring 2014 and I've been tracking this company for a few years.
Harshness Disclaimer Applies:
There is nothing more dangerous in this world than people who express strong, confident opinions while having bad or no information to base them on. Which appears to be precisely the situation you are in. Your "opinion" should be disclaimed with "I'm just a tire kicker that doesn't know anything about these cars or restorations but here is what I think ..". That would then allow the appropriate level of filtering for readers.
Harshness Disclaimer Applies:
There is nothing more dangerous in this world than people who express strong, confident opinions while having bad or no information to base them on. Which appears to be precisely the situation you are in. Your "opinion" should be disclaimed with "I'm just a tire kicker that doesn't know anything about these cars or restorations but here is what I think ..". That would then allow the appropriate level of filtering for readers.
Nothing more dangerous in this world... pfft.... I guess you believe and take at heart everything you read on the Internet.
The folks on this thread that believe they can build something similar from the parts bin have no idea what they are talking about and have obviously never seen or investigated the build process or components in the car. Again, cheap, uninformed opinions that thankfully come from folks that are not in the market for this product.
As a matter of fact, two of the Singer cars have been resold. The New York one most recently, for 200k over the original price. The other one was an earlier model and sold for 100k over.
There is currently a 2 year wait list for a build. The consequences of that are pretty obvious, including debunking your baseless statement that as a business their days are numbered.
There is currently a 2 year wait list for a build. The consequences of that are pretty obvious, including debunking your baseless statement that as a business their days are numbered.
In closing, there is a substantial list of buyers for this car because unlike every other tuner or home grown car, the Singer represents pure excellence both in build quality AND in driving experience. You can of course spend 1/2 the money or less and get something that looks somewhat similar from a distance, however as Michelangelo said, perfection is in the details, and the details will not be there when you look closely. So you could say you don't care about the details or don't value them, which is fine. Then again, you are probably the kind of person that has no issue buying a fake Patek Philippe with a chinese movement and feeling good about wearing it.