Jimjacqmx5

hi all,

I am running adjustable konis and HR reds with 24mm front and 22mm rear adjustable swaybars. I like that I can soften it off for the street however I can't get near other 964's for mid corner speed, particularly in 70-120km/h sweepers. I run plenty of camber and mild toe out on front end but I just lack grip.
I would like advise on a tried and true set up for shocks and springs incl lbs ratings.
If possible, I would like something that can still be driven on the street or preferably softened between track days. That said, I don't mind having very firm street suspension.
I have always been of the school of thought that super stiff is not necessarily the best road to grip but perhaps I need to go firmer than my current set up.

Babalouie

What tyres you got, mate?

Jimjacqmx5

I run Dunlop DZ03G, usually M compound front and R compound rear.
This is the same tyre as my competitors are running.

NineMeister

Interesting choice to have toe out on front....

You need to get more data before you can say why your grip is lacking, but the first stage of any engineering solution is to get the best from what you have.
1. Tyre temperature spread.
Using surface temperature gun, measure outer/centre/inner temp of each tyre after a hot lap. You are looking for an even gradient or ideally even temperature across the thread.
Hot outer = too much camber; Hot centre = too high pressure; cold centre = too low pressure.
2. Datalog cornering G force.
A simple 2 axis datalogger will tell you a lot about how you are entering a bend and what grip you have. Once the optimal slip angle of the tyre is exceeded grip diminishes, so it may be a case that your geometry is inoptimal or driving style is pushing one end of the car away from optimal slip. If you don't have a datalogger set up a constant radius G-circle on a car park with cones and measure your speed or time around it, then work out what the car needs to loop faster.
3. Roll angle/weight transfer
Get someone to video or photograph the car around the circle or track (like your avatar pic) and compare it with the cars that have a higher mid corner speed. That's a big clue.

To answer your first question about a suspension package, personally I would avoid anything unneccesarily complicated to set up, so the obvious choice would be a 964RS factory kit which is pre-set and non-adjustable. That said, most people perceive a benefit of having stuff to fiddle with, so for 90% track and 10% street option I would not look beyond a KW Clubsport kit, however I would also fit top mounts, wishbone bushes, trailing arm bushes and RS springplates because it may just be that your chassis is tired and all the parts are moving out of alignment under load.

Oh, and when you finally get all the parts you want, work on adjusting everything to suit your tyre choice using the above techniques - the effort will pay off in dividends.

Does that help?

ThomasC2

Is there really a difference bewteen the C2 and RS spring plate except for a little bigger holes for adjustments? Is the rubber a notch harder or?

Thomas

KaiB

I'm with Colin 100% here, but long before "too much" deep analysis happens perhaps the following thought process could occur. We would first have to assume that the suspension is up to standard, i.e. in decent shape with no worn components.

You indicate issues with "mid corner speed". Do you have issues with corner entry speed, turn-in and balance prior to throttle? Is the mid corner issue a function of over or understeer (and does the car respond to throttle steering)? Is the transition back to exit throttle stable? Are exit speeds up to snuff with a bit of oversteer?

If the car is up to standard (not worn), have you driven others? Have others driven yours?

I can assure you that I also have "mid-corner" speed problems many times - and the problem does not reside in my car's suspension...

NineMeister

"maybe your driving style is pushing one end of the car away from optimal slip"

Some might say that this was a subtle form of criticism....

NineMeister

Rubber joint deflects less under load I believe.

boxsey911

I almost went for KW clubsport but decided that KWV3 would suit me better for the mixture of track and street (about a 60/40 split). Generally, I keep the valves in the shocks set up with a firm bias. Geometry settings are standard RS spec but with a slightly higher ride height. All bushings are polyurethane except for the trailing arms that are original rubber. Depending on the driver, I can keep up with 964RSs (which I regard as the 'gold standard'). There is no doubt that my set up feels softer on track than an RS (I have rode in many) but it appears to grip just as well through the corners.

Here's me following my buddy's 964RS. The sweeper after the start/finish straight is about 100 mph (on the speedo) at the apex. Seems to stick pretty well.

NineMeister

It's flat in 5th at 130+ in my 993RS-R.

From a standing start on the line.


You're right about the KW V3 Steve; much friendlier on the road but still more than good enough for occasional the track use. We've had a few hard chargers who have traded up to the Clubsport for a more focussed track feel, but in general it is definitely the preferred choice for an allrounder.

FeralComprehension

Even if the roads are third-world ****e? (I live in Detroit you know...)

ThomasC2

Yes, but isn'tthe rubber in the springplate the problem here. The 964 rs and cup uses a springplate with a rubber bushing so I can' t really see the menaning of upgrading to this part. The RSR used a springplate with a uniball and that's a difference. So if your about to upgrade the springplate, as I am, I think a uniball versoln as from ERP is the only meaningfill way to go.

Thomas

boxsey911

Flippin' eck! Even if mine was capable of that I wouldn't have the b*lls to try it.

That was my first go at CC and absolutely loved that corner ....and very impressed how the KWV3s soaked up the bumps (I was surprised how bumpy CC is compared to other tracks I've been to).

Jimjacqmx5

LOL, I knew as soon as I posted this that the advise would be that perhaps the issue was the nut behind the wheel. It's probably the response I would have given too!
Although I am not a professional driver, I would say that my competitors would classify myself as equal to their abilities and my style is more on the side of being a smooth driver that keeps the car pretty straight and balanced. I have instructed several of the competitors and have driven their cars which just seem to hold on much more than mine.
My car has excellent front to rear balance and is very adjustable on the throttle and responds in a controlled manner. It feels very 'tight' with no 'slop' in the chassis and is in generally outstanding condition having mostly been rebuilt. That said, the shocks have probably done around 60,000kms.

What I was after is; I assume in the US and UK there is a much greater concentration of people racing these cars and there must be a set up which is considered the way to go. I understand once fitted, I will need fine tuning with a pyrometer etc to get it totally right.
As for monoball fittings. Yes, very nice, but not in my car which sees a fair bit of street.....

Shamus964

Jimjacqmx5 - I agree with what's been said - I think that the KW setups are regarded as the top of the heap - with the V3 being balanced for street/track use, and the Clubsport being dialed more for track work.

Hey Steve - what are your ride heights as measured from the center of your wheel hub to the fender lip? I'm running the V3 setup and I love it, but I'm REALLY low (as setup by the installer Rothsport) and I can't help but feel like maybe I'm getting into the bumps too often. Here's a pic for reference...(Ruf 17's and 225/45 and 255/40 RS3's)