bic

Hey guys,

So my grandfather is sort of a car collector and currently has a Guards Red '90 Cabriolet Tip with about 2,000 miles on it. It's in absolutely pristine condition and has been kept in a climate-controlled garage on Long Island, NY for the last 14 years. As far as I know, the car is in immaculate condition and is taken out at least once a month to make sure everything stays in working order.

My question is this..

I'm about two weeks from graduating from college and have the opportunity to take this car off his hands. Since this idea of owning a 964 has popped into my head, I've been absolutely infatuated with it and have done TOOONS of research on these cars (rennlist, flat-6, porsche964.co.uk, etc.). I'm almost certain I'll go through with picking up the car, but I have a couple of concerns:

1. How practical will it be for me to have a drop-top Porsche as a daily driver (in Florida)? I currently drive a sedan and never have owned a sports car, so I'm worred a bit about the lack of versatility (number of passengers, storage, etc.). This isn't a huge deal though, as I'm sure the thrill of driving a 964 will far outweigh any negatives.

2. The car only has about 2,000 miles on it!! Sure everything appears to be working now, but how likely is it that this car becomes a lemon in the near future?

Okay, in all honesty, the things listed above really aren't enough to scare me out of taking the car. So I already have a list of modifications I want to make to it: aero mirrors, 17-18" rims, bridge spoiler, ipod compatible head unit, possible speaker system, radar detector (not really a mod, I know), and possibly performance mods in the future.

So here are two more questions:

1. How much would you say this car is worth right now? Like I said, it's a Guards Red, black leather '90 Cabriolet with Tiptronic transmission and about 2,000 miles on it. It's bone stock and in perfect condition. The TMV price I found online said its worth is somewhere around $25k, but I feel like that's way too low. I've seen 964's with over 50k miles going for $30k..surely this one must be worth more, right? I'm toying with the idea of owning the car and testing it out for a couple of months before making any modifications to it to see if I want to stick with it for the long-haul. If I do this and decide to sell it, how much could I fetch for it with about 5,000 miles on it, assuming I keep it in great condition?

2. Will the modifications listed above significantly reduce its resale value?

And for views, I attached a few pictures. The first two were taken in my grandfather's garage in June '03, while the last one was taken this past May when I took the car out for a test drive and caught the Porsche bug. At the time, the car had 1850 miles on it.

Oh, and I apologize for the unnecessarily long first post...but I appreciate any advice you can give me.

-Victor

Kahdmus

OMG...LOOOk at that paint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems sacrilege to make any mods on this perfect example! I would get it checked out and serviced by a good Porsche shop before doing anything else!

bhensarl

First of all, let me just say welcome.
Second, let me further say that your grandfather is a saint. What a car!!!!!!
Third, I myself am only a year out of college, and while my 964 has a few more than 2,000 miles on it (about 59k more) I couldn't be happier with my decision to buy it. To be honest, I don't know what I'd do if something catastrophic happened(Yes I do, can you say credit card?), but that is a risk I'm willing to take. I think the most important thing is to do what you've already been doing: become a Porsche info sponge/junkie. Live on Rennlist. Join the PCA (don't wait 6 months like I did). Meet other Porsche owners. That way if something goes wrong you've got a lot of help to get it right again. Also, if you like working on cars, most of the little to medium sized repairs/ maintenance items you can do yourself with a couple tools and the help of your buddies on Rennlist.
And finally, practicality. Hmmm, what is a new college graduate worrying about practicality for in the first place? I see it this way, the car's practically fallen into your lap, at the very least do like you say, drive it a while and then decide. As for me, I've got a 964 as a daily driver and I love it. It's also great on the weekends when you and your friends are going out and you don't want to drive! ("Hey guys, I can drive but I can only take one other person. Hey, -insert friend's name here- got an SUV and he can take 4. Let's take his car!")
You're young, it's free (or a great deal?), live it up! Those were my reasons for buying mine anyway...
Brian

SKM

Modifying that car will significantly reduce its value. P-cars are generally worth the most in pristine, low mileage original, unmodifed condition. Buy it, drive it, enjoy it and preserve it.

garrett376

I bet that is the lowest mileage 964 in existence!!! Wow! I'd be scared to take the long way home and put an extra mile on it!!!

But, I am of the feeling that a car is meant to be driven, and enjoyed - but I've never had a car with less than 50K miles on it!!!! As Brian says - at one year out of college, enjoy the sports car days before they turn into mini-van (or SUV today) days.

Heck, if it breaks... isn't it still under warranty with only 1800 miles on it?!!!

My C4 cabrio is my daily driver - and the top has been down for about 3 months straight (maybe longer)! Works just fine, and I have the rear parcel shelf, so it is truly a 2 seater.

With a car of that mileage, any modifications, even miles, will decrease its value.

johnjohnc2

wow, what a car!!!

The price on this car as it is today is in sweden (and Germany) is atleast 34000 Euro. (in Europe tiptronic is disadvantage) Its hard to set a price on this very rare car and it isnt easy to find the perfect byer who is willing to pay alot extra for a low milage car. I frend of mine sold a C2-1993 with 25k miles and perfect condition for 34200 Euro last month, wasnt easy but the ONE willing to pay for it found it one day.

If i compare Euro with dollar today i would say this car would cost between 38-40k dollar, maybe more.


I agree with SKM, Modifying that car will significantly reduce its value!

oldtimer

Hi Victor , the hard headed view on this is that the car is worth most unmodified and as it is now , viewable as part of a cared for collection . I'm not sure if Grandpa is going to gift you the car , or whether he'd be as agreeable on ( hassle of ) selling it and giving you the proceeds . If he's going to sell you the car at a ' friendly family' knock down price and you can do what you like with it , comes back to the same conclusion. You could sell it for a premium and buy a cheaper 911 and modify it to death and drive it into the ground .

Roygarth

I would have thought the mods you list are all reversible if/when you come to sell. So if you keep all the bits (wheels, mirrors etc) no big deal.

springer3

Low miles is great, but there are things on cars that deteriorate with age. The climate controlled storage helps a lot, but you can expect to have problems with fluid leaks from seals that have hardened and shrunk. The top canvas is probably a little brittle by now, and will not last as long as a new one when put in daily service. You will have only slightly fewer problems than you would from a 50,000 mile car that has been driven and well cared for. Market for a 50,000 mile car in excellent condition is mid to upper 20s.

It would be a shame to turn such a collectable car into a daily driver. I would certainly recommend against modifying a car that has survived this long in original condition. You would certainly get more than $25,000 for the car, but low $30s is probably tops for the car in today's market.

I would drive and enjoy, if I were you.

andrew911

Excellent car!!! I agree with several people above- I would not modify this car. My 1993 C2 had only 12K miles on it when I bought it 1 1/2 years ago. The first thing I did was get the brake fluid flushed. I then drove the car for a bit and had the brake fluid flushed a second time. The front tires were original (as these probably are), and didn't really show signs of cracking, but this past spring I had them replaced- didn't want to chance a blowout at 130+

Anyway, the only modification I did was the cup air box cover (kept the original one to keep car stock), and unfortunately the speakers were all crap, so I put in a new Alpine CD, amp (strapped to gas tank as someone else on this board recommended, so no drilling/cutting), and new speakers. I kept the old CD radio (the CD player stopped working, but could be repaired). Looking back I kind of felt bad taking out the radio system and putting in a non-stock unit, but I love music from the speakers as well as the music from the rear of the car I kept the speakers all the stock sizes too, (MB Quarts that don't have a label on the grill), so the car looks pretty much as it did from the factory.

I drive the car about 2-3K miles a year, so it should be a nice "low mileage" car for many many years. Would you consider buying an old sedan that has good A/C to use on really hot days, or in foul weather so you can keep the porsche nice? Definitely drive the car and enjoy it....I'm not saying no to, but maybe you can have a "junker" to split up the driving?

Good luck- definitely go for the car (I'm sure your grandfather will give you a good price

Andrew

andrew911

By the way, you probably know this already being as you researched, but get the vent kit installed for the distributor- low cost and good preventative maint. item! I assume the oil has been changed each year.....

DaveK

Aplogies for going a bit OT but :

A subject I've seen a number of times in the past is : what should oil pressure be at idle? Mine is only just over 1 at normal operating temp. I've seen some people comment that this is far too low and it needs investigating. It's interesting to note that this 1800 mile car has an oil pressure of 1. Admittedly, it's fairly warm - but not enough to make a big difference in pressure - mine doesn't drop much pressure between the normal temp and the temp shown in the photo.

I've always felt my pressure was fine (lots of people's is similar) - guess this confirms it.

splattergasted

As an appreciator of all things irreplaceable, I have to agree with springer3, garrett376 , & old timer on turning it into a daily driver…there's probably not many of these low milers left.

When I bought mine, I was looking for a mid-hi mileage car that had most of the kinks worked out and depreciated out of someone else’s wallet. In terms of value loss/cost, every new mile you put on yours is going to be significantly more expensive than every mile I put on mine.

That said, I don't think 2k to 5k will drop the value too much (to be contrarian, I think the fact that a 20 year old kid is selling it will probably drop the value more than an additional 3k miles ).

Is your post-college budget going to allow for repairs? From what I've read, some early 90's are prone to leakage that doesn't start dripping until a few k miles are on the car. Are you able to plop down $1.5-2K or for the major service intervals? You check out insurance yet?

On the positive side, I use my '93 cab as a daily driver and am very happy with it...still pulls great...lots of waves and stares...that throaty rumble every morning is a wonderful pick-me-up. Roof up or down, it's a fine ride. Radio sux; but, that's easily remedied.

jimq

I live in Orlando and was driving my tip /cab around the afternoon of and the morning after the hurricane. Cant see a problem with a cab here as long as you park inside at nite and stay out of 100 mph winds. might be cool to have it as a tail wind tho!

Jay H

I'm a concours guy. Guys like me drool over 14 year old cars with 2000 miles on them. Man, look at that dash, steering wheel, gages, rims and paint. Even with digital photos taken at a distance, you can see how nice this car is. It's as new. The leather on the wheel is perfect...

Man, keep this car stock and keep the miles off. It'll depreciate very little if it's kept as new. Start driving it, and you'll take a huge hit if Grandpa sells it to you at market value.

If you do end up getting this car, sell it immediately to someone who concours or collects, keep the $32,000-$35,000 you just made, spend $22,000 on a nice 964 with 50,000 miles, drive that all year 'round and pocket the extra $10k.

As others have said, taking a former car collection vehicle with essentially zero miles on it and turning into a daily driver should be a sin... I agree too that once this car starts getting some use, you'll see a few age related problems crop up such as leaking seals, failing rubber, etc.

Best,

Jay
90 964