Adrian

Dear Phil,
I hope so. When the final sort of schedule (awaiting response from PCGB) is put together I will let everyone know. This is for two reasons,
1/. For those who wish to get together and
2/. For those who wish to avoid me
The schedule has us leaving Switzerland on the 14th October and arriving in the UK on the 15th October withour first event on the 16th October at Roly Baldwin's place.
I have not yet decided on the chunnel or the ferry yet.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Phil Raby

Chunnel with a car is very dull - like being stuck in a carpark for half an hour. Ferry's much nicer - you actually feel as if you're on a voyage

How about an interview for 911&PW while you're here? A good plug for the book!

Cheers

Christer

I am going to GT One which I think is virtually next door to Roly Baldwin's (?) on Saturday - I'll try to see if he is around....

Adrian

But I get a bit sea sick on ferries. Wellington to Picton in New Zealand was the last time. However cost will play a significant factor. I want to go from Caen to Portsmouth to avoid getting lost. I know where Portsmouth is.
Sure I will be happy to give you an interview. You know I am a man of a few words
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Phil Raby

Tricky to get the tunnel to Portsmouth, unless you're handy with a spade

Roygarth

L.O.L

Roygarth

Must admit I can't think why one wouldn't get a pre-mod dyno, especially as I can't believe they'd charge you for it.

Surely if they carry out the same mods to a tired 100K miler 964 and a fresher 25K miler 964 the end BHP will be different. Surely they can't aim for a target BHP unless they know what they are starting with?

(Caveat to above = 'I know nothing' said in joke Spanish accent)

Ruairidh

I also know nothing, which is why I'm asking the same question as Piers.

I see Adrian's point - he is paying for 285bhp and not a gain of "xxbhp". And I expect if he doesn't get that end result there will be hard conversations with Sportec.

That makes sense. What I don't get is how Sportec guarantee the 285? There must be some limit to how much increase their kit can deliver?

And thats my question - how does this work for them and their customers? Do they only guarantee the 285 if the engine is in OK shape? Do they tell you once they have it what else needs doing in order for the kit to deliver the promised bhp?

I'm interested for my own education here.

Adrian

Wait until the modification is done and then comment. Nobody has seen or understands the actual work that will be carried out.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

DaveK

I'm not sure people are questioning whether you know your engine or not. I think the main reason people are suggesting a "before" dyno run is because if you take your car to 3 different dynos, you are likely to get 3 different results. It's also useful to know the calculation that is being used for transmission loss - and that the figure the dyno shows for the stock engine is roughly what you would expect.

I don't think the suspicion is directed particularly at Sportec. It's only that there are many companies that advertise power gains, and many of them don't live up to the claims. A before dyno plot as a reference is what most of us would do, simply so we can see there is a difference.

Obviously if you don't want one, there is no point getting one.

Christer

Adrian

This has nothing to do with whether you know your car or not, I don't think anyone means any disrespect. My final point is:

You are looking for 285hp. At what level of transmission loss are you looking for those figures? 15%? 45%? Unless Sportec have a dyno which can accurately measure the actual tranny powerloss on your particular car then I would assume they calibrate your cars powerloss in order to get 245-250 hp initially and then apply the same powerloss to the equation in order to get 285hp at the end (and nothing wrong with that really)? Which is the only reason I would ask to get the pwer at the wheels measure before and after. This has nothing to do with whether i know better than you, whether you know your car or not or whether you feel that I am suspicious or dismissive. I only ask out of interest not out of spite, I only ask because I do not understand how you can be sure that the dyno can somehow know your drivetrain loss.

I have the same issue with 9M. They quote fwhp as well, but they provide both. I also know they only apply something like a 12% loss to the drive train on a C2 so the fwhp figures are not inflated. But in any case, I know I had around 221rwhp on mine before the conversion, so whether 9M say it will be 340, 350, 375, or 390 hp at the end, I will only look at the rwhp because it does not have any corrective factor applied to it.

Any actual explanations from you on how Sportec can without error calculate the drivetrain loss on your car would be greatly appreciated - and I mean other than 'oh no, you don't know anything', or 'well Sportec have a magic dyno that is from another dimension' or 'i feel treated like a criminal because people are asking questions'. I am sorry to be a bit short, but I personally am only asking a question which if you don't wish to/can't answer then I would prefer that you just tell me to **** off because what you have said so far (IMHO) defies logic.

Sincere question - sincere answer would be nice!

Adrian

Dear Christer,
Sincere answer; Wait until the modifications are carried out.
This means after 15th July. Until then the subject is closed.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Phil Raby

I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one. May I respectfully suggest we give it a rest before things get out of hand once again? Remember, John Bog's not here to moderate

Cheers

Irishdriver

Adrian,

Relax, the boys are asking honest questions, but I think the issue here is the degree of modification.

If you do small changes - just a chip for example - then berfore and after make sense.

To my mind (yes well stirred last Sunday) if you increase the capacity with bigger pots etc and the bottom end is healthy, then you are talking about a new engine. ANd yes I wouls expect the same results from a smokey 200k km motor as from a 20k km motor as they should be the same after rebuild. That is why I agree before is not that useful in this case.

However, if we continue the weightwatchers theme - it is often fun to see the before and after pictures - even if you used lyposuction.

Phil Raby

Is lyposuction similar to supercharging?