Thomas Linser

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adrian
Dear Thomas,
Are you going to drop by on the 11th or 12th of September. I would love to meet you.QUOTE]


Adrian!!

Thanks a lot for the invitation, I always wanted to see the instalations of sportec as they're said to be serious about their work and mods. Perhaps I will drop by on 11th-12th (thus I have to explain to my girl why in hell, I'going to Zurich for a Dyno Test an meet another rennlsiter )

If you want... once your mod's have been made I can call up Pierre Ofzky (a very well reputed independent, who's preparing some real 934's, 962, 964 RS, 911 2.8 RSR and other rairities like the original Turbo made for Karajan), he has one of most accurate and non-optimistic Dynos over here in switzerland as his dyno is well above 1200 meters above sea level. But I just think about a thing...hum...I do no think that he has a rolling road for 4WD-cars.

Anyway Adrian...if you're porsche nuts (I do believe you are but..let me think...are you not the one who has written a book about 964's??? ) you should pay him a visit...Ofsky is really worth the trip...a real Anorak if you see what I mean!!

Gruetzi Thomas

Adrian

Dear Thomas,
It is a two day Austellung. No dyno tests. My C4 will be available for a test drive by Rennlisters if they wish to have a drive.
See you there,
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: I trust the Sportec dyno.

Phil Raby

I'd say a before dyno run is well worthwhile. You want to see how much of an increase in power the conversion gives - and the only way to do that is to find the relative increase. No dyno is going to give an absolutely accurate figure...

Cheers

Thomas Linser

Adrian!

Well let's see if I can do it to Zurich on those 2 days in September (well at leats one of both)!! Hope it will work out!

Gruetzi Thomas

Bill Gregory

Adrian,

Approx. what, in US dollars, does the stage 3 upgrade cost?

Adrian

Dear Phil,
I am sorry I cannot agree. Using your own words that the final figure is not accurate then the first figure is also not going to be accurate so the whole exercise will be a waste of time.
I cannot say it enough times. I have a 15 year old stock standard motor I do not want to see what the relative difference is. I can tell you that in 15 years my engine has not increased in HP as compared to when it left the factory. If anyone does believe this then I have some property to sell them.
I am only interested in achieving the final result of a minimum of 285 HP. The difference for me is based on the standard output at the flywheel of 247 (250) HP. In reality I reckon it might be down to circa 240 HP at the flywheel. So if I say I got 45 HP increase then it only applies to my 964 and for me that is a "who cares". The next person on may only get 35 HP to reach 285 HP and they might start complaining and we have this conversation all over again about what happened to my 10 HP. Plus we would have the accuracy of the dyno stuff all over again etc etc. Plus it is actually my money and I have decided that a pre modification dyno run is not worth the effort.

Dear Bill,
Installed the whole stage 3 kit is 6000 CHF or $US4,800. The labour costs including tuning of the complete new air flow system on the dyno. The whole process takes about 6 hours. The entire air flow system is removed and replaced. All the changes will be photographed to hopefully provide a step by step view of what is going on. The new cat is substantial chunk of the cost.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Gavin

Adrian, I had a look on the Sportec website, but unfortunately couldn't translate. What modifications/changes do they make as part of the upgrade ?

Phil Raby

Neither figure will be an absolute accurate, but at least you'll see what sort of gain you've acheived. For all you know, the dyno could be reading 35bhp over and you're not really getting any extra power for your money. OK, that's unlikely, but you see what I mean. I've worked with dynos enough to know that none is 100% accurate, and there are so many variables involved that you can only usefully use them to make comparisions. But there you go...

Adrian

Dear Gavin,
Let me get the changes made and then I will put all the photos on my web site and you will be able to see for yourself. Then I will also be in a much better position to give exact details based on personal experience.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

pzull

USD4800 or EUR3900 for just 35bhp? That's EUR111 per bhp! Charlie Brown (peanuts) power for Britney Spears (mega bucks) price......OK so I like Britney....but that's a whole other topic.

But then like it's said many times, it aint my money and whatever floats your boat. I got same increase in hp and better increase in acceleration via a well designed much lighter weight custome full exhaust system....at a fraction of the cost. Sad, a better way to spend money wasn't found. But its your money.

Phil Raby

35bhp from an exhaust? I hope you have before and after dyno figures to back it up?

Cheers

Adrian

Dear Phil,
This guy should go to his exhaust supplier and get them to advertise world wide. This is the breakthrough we have all been waiting for. A 35 HP exhaust system now wouldn't Porsche be impressed.
I can see GHL, Fabspeed, Remus and the rest all going bankrupt. I can see Alois Ruf on the phone to this guy already. Ruf only offer 8-10 HP with their 2500 Euro exhaust system.
Now I do have some property for sale
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: One small point is of course that we here in Switzerland have to meet emissions requirements which are tested so we have to keep our -35 HP cats.

pzull

Custom exhaust done with custom chip which didn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks (fraction of total cost of project) and intake which I dont think did anything. HP measured before and after on Gtech Pro and Competition and several averaged runs, which by the way measured the equivalent bhp increase of weight loss as well. (Note: Pro and Competition version of Gtech showed consistent 8-10 bhp difference in readings). Driven back to back with stock rebuilt 964s it's impossible one cant tell the difference. People who have sat/driven my car will know

But if you think EUR111 per brand-named bhp is good value, it's up to you since it's your money not mine. I'm just sharing my experience and measurements and am not looking to make any money out of it....cos it's cheap(er) $ per bhp than can be charged to brand-name requiring consumers

It was once said that EUR50 per RUF bhp was bad value for money so EUR111 per bhp must be worse I think by comparison. Just calling it like I see it. But your money you do what you want

pzull

Oh forgot to mention....if you've ever opened up a porsche 964 primary and secondary muffler before you'll see that the only performance they were going for was sound reduction and longeavity - huge restrictions, multiple baffles = huge turbulence. And those ultra un-equal length headers, well clashville for exhaust pulses=more turbulence and more restriction....no exhaust tuning effort at all....but at it least gave that characteristic boxer sound so loved by many

Kahdmus

I admittedly know very little about the factors affecting dyno results however I am aware that many factors can have an effect on the final result. Therefore IMHO by measuring before AND after on the SAME dyno as soon as possible after the mod is completed in the same location should theoretically be more valuable than an arbitrary singular measure taken after the work is complete?

I would think a reading before and after on two DIFFERENT dynos would be the best way to proceed. This would be valuable if the increase was very similar regardless of the beginning and end values (but obviously less valuable if very different).

Surely if the readings are that unreliable, then why even bother measuring afterward at all?

i'm looking forward more to hearing Adrians impressions after driving his car once upgrade is complete!!!!!!