RyanH.

It's a Rothsport one, I'm going to return it since it's not harmonically balanced and I missed that when I originally did research on it. Engine is ready to go back into the car, just need my last two front engine tins...going to need to see if I can bribe the powdercoater to get those prioritized for today, would really like to get this all together and go for a drive tomorrow since I'll have the day off.

Navaros911

I found my 987.2 Cayman R easier to work on than my 964 and easier than my 997.1

The Cayman has good access to pretty much everything you want when the front panel and top panel are removed.

That said, I sold the Cayman and kept the 964...

Just wanted to clear up a common misconception.

Navaros911

Progressing really well... even when you hit those surprises. Best thing to fix things as and when you see them. Because you may not have time to do them later. Or worse, you may not want to do them later for some other reason.

So the while I'm in there condition, most of us on here suffer from, does have it's benefits

RyanH.

Almost there. Spent several hours trying to get the drive shaft to mate back up to the transmission.

Now I'm trying to figure out why it won't idle. It'll start up and stall immediately. If I press the gas and hold it, I can get it to hold rpms until I let off. I'm hoping my ISV didn't seize over the past few weeks. My flywheel speed sensor connector is a bit knackered, do the symptoms fit that too? I thought the car wouldn't start at all if the flywheel sensor wasn't working (and I'd assume rpms wouldn't read).

Edited to add: last night I got it to start and run on its own, but there was a vacuum leak (I forgot the rear rubber plug on the intake manifold) and the car was running on its own. So, probably not flywheel sensor.

RyanH.

Fixed the issue by soaking with PB Blaster for a bit then cleaning out with carb cleaner then air compressor and a little CLP. Disconnected battery and reconnected a few minutes later and it's running now...except I messed up my valve adjustment it seems:


That's the sound of valves that are set too loose, right?

Sigh... So... Close...
​​​​

wallra

that sounds like something is hitting. Is the fan hitting the housing. take the belt off and run it

RyanH.

That was my initial suspicion which I originally checked by removing the belt and rotating the fan. I just double checked with the engine running and belt off and it's the same.

Is this not the noise that the valves make when they're too loosely adjusted?

wallra

It did'nt sound like the valves but I only hear whats coming through the computer.

964Andrew

I think it's chain tensioner.

RyanH.

Hmm, I didn't end up touching the chain tensioners.

Here's a list of things that I touched in one way or another:

• Power steering pump (resealed)
• Distributor was removed and cleaned but not disassembled
• Spark plugs, wires, dizzy caps and coils
• Valve covers and valve adjustment
• Timing chain covers
• Fuel system
• Fan and housing
• Crankshaft pulley removed and reassembled
• Clutch/flywheel, new release fork shaft
• Flywheel speed sensor
• Intake manifold

What does it sound like when the spark plugs aren't wired correctly or operating correctly? Also, it was running on fuel injectors that were barely functional before, so increased fuel injection could be another variable.

When I started it Friday or Saturday night for the first time, I forgot a plug on the intake manifold and the idle volume was significantly louder than normal. Put the primary muffler back on and started it up again, idle volume was nearly as loud as straight from the header a month ago. I let it run for 30s or so to try to identify the vacuum leak noise source. I started it a bunch of times the following day after fitting the plug on the intake and trying to figure out the stalling issue, but I haven't yet run it for more than 30 seconds or so. I'm concerned about damaging something but should I also try letting it idle for a little longer to see if it settles in? If I do that, I'll do that once I get the mechanic's stethoscope to try to isolate the noise.

Lastly, one detail I don't want to leave out, the first two times I started the car, oil was a lot lower than expected. I added a gallon initially as that was close to what initially drained from the crankcase plus some that we captured from disconnected lines but a lot more must have dripped from the oil tank as I needed to add another 1.5 gallons to get to the bottom of the dip stick.

964Andrew

The sound in your video is a very fast rhythmic single type (element) sound. If the engine is at idle speed for such a fast knock the lifters would have to be all improperly adjusted. I can also make out a dull plastic type of resonance in the knock sound. One place I heard that before was the chain sliding on guides (plastic) without tensioner. What is the oil pressure reading? Did you build up the oil pressure before starting the engine?

Andrew

RyanH.

I don't think I botched the valve adjustment that badly. All of them had what I thought was the right amount of tension for the shim and I started with a Kirk tool.

Considering my answer to this is going to be: how do you build up oil pressure prior to starting the engine? The answer is probably no. Although, I forgot that I did try to start the car a few times with the dizzy caps unplugged from the coils. I want to say that oil pressure was at 2 bar idling but there was a lot going on so I am not 100% sure. All I do know for sure is that oil pressure was not below 1 bar.

Thinking about the timing chains, when I did the oil bridge gaskets, the spring mechanism on the bottom one (right hand side?) popped out and I had to put it back in. I remember researching which way it should go but if that's in the wrong way, could that be making that noise?

RyanH.

Hell...yes...it was the passenger side timing chain tensioner. The hole was facing the wrong way, flipped it and now all is good! Just need to figure out how to bleed the lateral and longitudinal diff locks (PDAS switch method?) and I can finally get this girl back on the road! So relieved at this point.

I'll post a recap with costs, what I ended up doing and rough time it took for the various things sometime this week.

Spokes

Here is a great write up on 13 point bleed. If you don't have a PDT999 you can use the switch method see post #18.

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...ocedure-3.html

RyanH.

So, here’s a recap of the project, including an approximate breakdown of hours, costs and a few lessons learned.

Planned items addressed:

• Replaced engine bay fuel lines
• Valve adjustment
• Replaced seals and gaskets for valve covers, timing chain covers, oil bridges, RMS and IMS
• Replaced engine bay power steering lines
• Spark plugs, caps, rotors, coils and distributor
• Fuel filter, intake filter
• Power steering pump seals

Unplanned but while I was in there things:

• Powder coated engine tins, intake manifold and fan*
• Ported and polished intake manifold stacks
• Cleaned ISV, MAF, intake stacks and body
• Rebuilt fuel injectors
• Replaced clutch and upgraded release fork to brass
• Cleaned transmission
• Removed brackets no longer needed
• Removed cruise control
• Aluminum spacer brackets for engine to carrier
• RS Fan pulley
• Intake manifold rubber/seals

Unplanned items because I had to:

• Replaced longitudinal diff slave (broke it getting it out)
• Replaced engine fan (cracks)
• Replaced front to rear fuel line
• CV joint bolts
• Billet valve covers
• Breather hose (brittle and broke when twisted)

Here’s a timeline of events:

November 30th, 7am
Install cat bypass and begin disassembling intake manifold. Not sure I was going to drop the engine at this point. While I was disassembling the intake manifold, I noticed that I had a bubble in one of the fuel lines.

Time spent: ~10 hours

December 2nd through 5th
Take off heat shields, realize that my valve covers are a mess. Maybe they can be salvaged if they’re powder coated. Continue disassembling intake manifold, engine fan and spark plug wires. Was planning on reusing the wires but broke two wires in this process so it was clear I needed to add that to the costs.

Time spent: ~5 hours

December 8th
Pull fuel rails, lines and injectors, get the injectors prepped to be sent off to be cleaned. Was on the fence about getting this done but extremely glad I did, going from ~60% working across the board to fully working, near new condition has made a huge difference.

Time spent: 1-2 hours?

December 16th to 18th
Okay, committing to dropping the engine. Time to begin following Adrian’s guide and begin removing things.

Time spent: ~ 4 hours

December 19th, 2pm
Engine drop day. Friend came over to help. Began following manual in earnest, as well as cross referencing with Garrett’s thread. 6 hours later we get stuck, can’t get the longitudinal diff out. Tried some diligent tapping, no go. This is demoralizing. I went to bed this night doubting the entire project, contemplating other cars to buy.

Time spent: 7 hours

December 20th, 7am
Determine that the longitudinal slave is stuck, get more forceful with extracting it. An hour later I have it out...and mangled. Oh well (until I saw the price on it a few days later). Begin lowering the engine on the ATV lift. Remove a few things that are still connected, nearly missed the starter ground strap, but success! A wave of emotions overcome you as you realize you dropped your engine at home. OK, this project is looking more feasible again.

Wheel engine around into main space in garage and immediately make a terrible mess of the garage cleaning 30 years of gunk in my wife’s parking spot. Fortunately, she didn’t notice my bumper and half my car disassembled over the past week until I mentioned it, so a huge black spot in her side of the garage should go unnoticed for at least half a year. Spent roughly 4 hours cleaning the transmission.

Paused for dinner and then resumed with the valve adjustment. Used the Kirk tool which was tremendously helpful learning how. Double checked and then went to sleep around 10pm.

Time spent: 13 hours

December 21/22
Rechecked valve adjustments, this time just using the feeler gauge. Decided that most of them were too tight. Didn’t use the Kirk tool this time around. It was a lot faster to use a wrench and screw driver, plus I was able to torque down the nuts more than finger tight. Checked the adjustments twice over. All good, reassembled and installed new gaskets.

Disassembled more things. Can’t really recall what else I accomplished but it wasn’t a tremendous amount. Still, I spent two full days (8 hours each) doing things. Oh, and I spent probably two hours trying to separate the transmission but couldn’t. Turns out I missed the step on removing the shaft from the release fork. Note to self: it won’t separate if the release fork can’t move out of the way. Also, identified that my fuel line project isn’t done, the main line is cracked. Dammit.

Time spent: 16 hours

Christmas Week
Took a break from the 964 to take on the project from hell, trying to replace the PCV valve on the V6 Cayenne. 6 hours, three nights and 8 bolts later, I throw in the towel and decide I’m towing it to a shop after Christmas. That was the best decision I made in awhile. That shop had it for a week and said it was one of the worst jobs they had done.

December 28, 7am
Start running AN6 lines from fuel pump to trunk. Spent about 4 hours doing that. Friend came over at 11am to tackle separating transmission. About 30 minutes of struggling we realize that the release fork shaft was preventing it from separating. 10 minutes later it’s apart. Now, time to tackle the clutch job but I hadn’t found a tutorial. Turns out, it was simple enough to figure out by looking at what is in front of you. Total time was probably 1.5 hours to replace clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel.

Reassembly, on the other hand, posed a challenge. Made many noob mistakes. Forgot to center the clutch disk (forgot to order the bloody tool). Tried to get things back together, but couldn’t yet tried many different ways including using straps. An hour or so later, realized it’s because the clutch and transmission spline isn’t aligned. Undid XZN bolts, mated them loose and then torqued them through the opening. All was good until I thought until I picked up some trash on the ground to find that my friend forgot the end cap for the release fork. Ugh, time to undo and put that in.

Time spent: 9 hours

January 3rd to 6th
Time to put engine back in. Thought this was going to be a 6 hour thing...wrong… Got it fully in without too much fuss and then couldn’t mate the drive shaft to transmission splined end. Spent two days and probably 4 hours figuring that out. Supporting the prop shaft with a jack was the trick. But this wasn’t the end of my challenges. Started her up on Friday night without the exhaust on in front of my wife (she was getting home, I thought this was a good test to see if she would okay straight pipes), turns out I was wrong. I forgot to put a plug in on the intake so with the extra oxygen, it roars to life in a deafening loud manner. Even with the primary exhaust on, it was probably louder than a normal engine straight piped. In short, wife didn’t approve. Took a bit to figure out the vacuum leak.

Next morning, put the plug in and then try to start the car, it immediately stalls. Try again multiple times, find that holding gas pedal can keep it alive but it’ll die if I release. Spent a good portion of the day addressing that. Determined ISV is seized. PB Blaster, cleaner and CLP resuscitated it. Disconnect battery and reconnect and try again, success...but now there’s a loud noise.

Another day goes by, at this point I decide that if I can’t fix it, it’s getting towed to my indy who is back in town on Monday. I’m beginning to feel negative thoughts about this project again. Worse, I’m growing concerned I dropped something in the intake when I was disassembling.

Thanks to fellow Rennlisters, it clicked that it might be the timing chain tensioner. Sure enough, the passenger side was upside down. Start her up and she’s running smoothly.

Time spent: 20 hours

Today, Jan 7th
Took her out for a test drive, let her idle for a few minutes in the garage. Noted that my whole house now shakes when its idling. This brings me joy. Went for a quick spin and so pleased I did the clutch and injectors, and immediately remembered why we do these things like spend a month working on a car. I’m glad to have it back on the road, driving was quite boring the last month.

Total project time? Somewhere around 80 hours give or take 15 hours.

Project cost
Planned items: $2400
While I was in there: $2300
Collateral damage/discovered to be broken: $1800

Total: $6500

Final Thoughts
This was a roller coaster of an experience. There were several points where I wanted to be done with the car, but at each of those lows, this community has helped me overcome them through the vast knowledge.If I were to do this over again, I would say that one, doing a reseal is not worth the effort in itself. The reseal aspect should be a while in there thing, not the primary or driving reason. Secondly, I would have convered all of the fuel lines to AN6 or had them custom made using existing fittings. That would have saved probably $700.

Overall, I know my car a lot better now. There were quite a few things that I ended up addressing because it was a potential concern or I noticed it while I was dealing with other things. I don’t think a shop, even a good one, will give your car that attention. I’m already thinking about a future rebuild, but for now I’m on the fence if I want to do it myself, but after overcoming all the low points, I feel more confident that I’d be able to see that through. In the mean time, I’m looking forward to driving the snot out of it!

Here's a before and after of the engine bay: