andrew911

I just ordered a K&N filter to go with a cup airbox cover (didn't want to drill out my stock cover- wanted to keep it so I had the ability to convert back to stock...) Anyway, I got my Porsche Panorama in the mail last night, and someone has a tech quesiton that refers to an earlier tech answer on the Porsche Club of America website.

I went to the boxter tech. section of the PCA website, and there are several tech posts on the oil from a K&N filter getting in the air intake assembly and damaging the mass air flow sensor!!! Is this true? Or are the several posts maybe by the same tech guy that feels this is the case?

More importantly for me (as a 964 owner), has this ever occured with a 964? Do we have a mass airflow sensor similar to the boxter, or is it a different design that might not be affected by this??

Here is a post of the Q&A- again this is from the Boxter section- another post says the K&N is the same situation as the BNC filters by the way:


Question
Are there any performance benefits due to adding a K&N air intake filter?

Answer
There are small HP gains, about 3 HP, but the oil on the filter assembly seems to migrate to the air mass sensor causing failures on the sensor. I don't feel the need to spend 200.00 on a 50.00 filter for 3 HP. Keep it simple with a factory filter

PCA WebSite -

Christer

A standard 964 will not have a MAF.

Adrian

Dear Andrew,
Yes this is quite true. However I would not use the word damage but contaminate. It does not cause failures it causes hunting idle and you have to disassemble the airflow assembly and clean it out. It also gets into the idle speed control valve. This would need cleaning as well.
My opinion on these assemblies is well known. Waste of money.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

joey bagadonuts

Nice upgrade, Andrew.

Here's the only anecdotal information I can recall relative to this issue. It was posted by Manny Alban who Club Races his 964.

andrew911

Adrian- I know you and others think the "cup" airfilter cover assemblies are a waste of money- they probably are, I don't know why I bought it, but I thought it looked "neat" & haven't bought anything for the car recently You could say it was an impulse buy (to use the marketing term)

Maybe I'll use the cup cover with the stock airfilter? I thought the K*N would be better & that's why I got it, but I don't want to screw up my idle or anything else...

By the way, does anyone know if the K&N filter oil is more prone to coming off into the intake system after a K*N has been cleaned and the oil spray was re-applied by the owner vs. just using the filter from the box? I only drive my car about 3K miles a year, so any airfilter would last several years. If this were the case, I could just throw away the K*N filter as opposed to cleaning it if that would help..

Thanks again for any imput-
Andrew

andrew911

I just read Joey's post. Based on that and Adrian's comment, I think I'll be only using the cup cover. Oh well, looks like I'll have a K&N filter to put up on ebay when the mail arrives

Isn't that crazy that an air filter's sole purpose- to filter the air- winds up causing this? Especially from a "specialty" manufacturer like BNC or K*N that concentrates on air filters

Thanks for the imput!
Andrew

pzull

The problem is most people over oil after cleaning. Striaght from factory they are usually dry to the feel otherwise wipe it with a clean towel to soak up excess oil until it no longer comes off on fingers or towel.

STock filters are great as long as they are replaced often. They flow just as well new but restricts when dirty. Filtration efficiency of K7N is not as good as paper filter based on tests someone did on the web with various types of filter elements.

Main perceptible benefit of K&N is sound/noise. No problems with idle or Airflow meter contamination from nearly 5 years of use

Cupcar#12

Ok - a couple of points on the K&N (I will stay out of the worth the money discussion)
What happens to most owners is that the clean the air filter with the K&N cleaning kit and then re-oil the the filter per directions. BUT they do not allow the filter to sit over night to drain off excess oil - or they over oil the filter element -
this causes oil from the filter to contanimate the MAF - triggering the check engine light and poor running.
it is simple to avoid - really.
The 964 does not have a MAF - as stated above. so this becomes less of a concern.
my Boxster BMC filter exibited the same problems - due to over oiling and not allowing it to dry - i partially dissasembled the intake and soaked the MAF with electrical contact clearner - allowed it to dry - reinstalled the stock filter - problem solved.
Out of the box there is no problem with the filter normally - but i would allow it to seep overnight.
That being said i used a K&N filter for years - cleaned it often and never had an issue - Just do it first when you do you valve adjustment (when preping the car the night before) and it''s fine.

Cupcar#12

Funny - Denise and I were typing the same thing at the same time! 1/2 a world away

andrew911

OK...I'm going back & forth on this- I've never seen a K*N filter let alone used one, but when I get it I'll be able to check it out. If it seems dry from the factory (I'll do as you say and wipe it a little with a paper towel) maybe I'll use it. Both Pzill and cupcar answered my hunch that from the factory this wouldn't be as much of an issue as if someone "overoils" the filter to service it. Hopefully this would avoid having the issues Adrian has seen in some cars?

pete000

I have been using K&N's on most of the vehicles I have owned over the years including off road types. Those filters do flow more air. More air flow is always a good thing. I have read lately about the micro fine dirt being able to slip through. I am sure that this is not a good thing, but the trade off might be worth it. I know people who have put 100's of thousands of miles on K&N's with no noticable wear on the internals of the engine. I say what ever floats your boat! I like them because they flow more and are easy to clean. Good Luck.

springer3

I tried one once, but went back to the stock system. Reasons:

First, on a street car, durability is king, and the factory system filters better.

Second, I hate the cleaning process, and frankly worry about what is left behind ready to enter the engine.

Third, the element will undoubtedly load up with dirt and develop weak spots (holes) over time with repeated cleaning.

With the paper element, your hands stay clean, your intake does not suck in oil, and you know you have protection from the dirt.

"Waste of money" is the best thing you can say about it for street use. I don't take the car to the track, so can't comment on any competitive benefit.

Just my 2 cents on the topic.

joey bagadonuts

Wow, I haven't seen people this divided since the great undertray debates. I'm using this cotton cone and feel it's the way to go.

Adrian

Dear Joey,
Not divided at all just giving opinions based on personal experience. Somebody asked a question based on what they had read and it was answered. For the record the oil does not damage mass airflow sensors either. It contaminates them and can be easily cleaned including the hot wire.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

joey bagadonuts

Thanks for the correction.