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The first owner of my car had a petroleum based undercoat sprayed/applied to the undercarriage to prevent any possible rust issues. He lived in Washington state and used this car as his daily driver for the first 20,000 miles. He thought it would be best to protect the underside by applying this coating. I was stunned when I first noticed it and to be honest, disappointed. As soon as I got it home, I grabbed a rag dipped in gasoline and worked a small area of the pan. WHAM, to my delight it started to dissolve the coating. I then had the majority of this coating removed by ice blasting it off, and then back cleaned the remaining spots with more rags and gas. Since my car had this aftermarket coating applied by the original owner, I have no evidence to prove cosmoline was ever applied at the factory. Your car is a very low mileage car that I assume has never had any aftermarket coating. You should be able to notice if the factory applied any protective coating.
In addition, my warranty book cleaning states that any under body issues are not covered under the factory warranty regarding CARRERA CUP cars. See attached photos....
Hope this helps answer your question....
Thanks Chris. My car has no real remanence of any sort of undercoating. There wasn’t really remanence of any either on #557 or #572 both very low mileage examples, but both Andial converted race cars so not sure if that changes anything. I assume since the first owner of your car applied an aftermarket undercoating it didn’t have any cosmoline applied by the factory. Was always under the impression that the ROW RS’ came with no protective undercoating but the Clubsport I linked above on BAT debunked that notion. Maybe the ROW RS’ and US Cup’s had cosmoline applied by the factory or perhaps not (leaning towards not for the US Cup’s), but not really an important thing just was curious about this small detail.
FYI I don't recall seeing any cosmoline and the few pictures i have of the underside don't show any. I don't believe it ever had it. Usually there is always a little evidence no matter how well cleaned.
All of the Carrera Cup buyers had to sign a "Declaration and Waiver" from Porsche Cars N.A., This was to acknowledge the differences from the regular street version vs. the Carrera Cup. One of the line items states, "body cavity wax, undercoating and sound deadening components have been eliminated". They also had to sign that they had received the Warranty Book that stated certain areas of the warranty were not applicable to the Carrera Cup. I have the original document and the warranty book.
Here is the actual signed Warranty and Declaration Waiver. There were several other documents that Porsche made the buyers sign, including an pre order from that required a $20K deposit, $10K that went against the purchase and $10K that was good faith and was not returned if you backed out. The original order had the purchase price of $100K, which later was reduced to an MSRP of $78,430 when the race failed and they became street legal cars.
I also included the letter sent to the retail buyers once they were sold as street cars.
I scanned in a few more documents, including race information, part #s and letters to the buyers. Enjoy!
Mustang dyno result: 93 Octane revved to 6200 = 240 WHP/224 Torque or 276 HP to the crank. Could probably made more with 100 Octane rev to 6400 but i'm satisfied she feels fast with the short gearing and being a lightweight. Next will be getting a wet weight.
Last edited by 2swoosh; 12-01-2022 at 10:33 PM.
Reason: typo
This proves that something was done to increase the HP above RS numbers. According to the factory technical spec book the RoW RS is rated at 257hp and 239 ft pounds of tq, vs the stock C2 which is rated at 247hp and 228 ft pounds tq. I know driving the cup is nearly identical to the **** box I have. I also know that my butt dyno tells me the Cup and SB have a bit more grunt than the RS. Clearly something was done to make these pump out more power. The question is were the 16 port cars the same power output or was this only the ANDIAL tested cars. It has been alluded that ANDIAL did something making the ANDIAL cars a bit more powerful. We would need to dyno test an RS and a Port car to know for sure but IMO this makes these evenmore unique. I only trust mustang dynos and although any dyno can be messed with the mustang is always less optimistic than a dynojet and others. Not to get into dyno differences debate but I use a 15% drivetrain loss when using the mustang, some say it is closer to 18% but I'm conservative. This would put #590 at roughly 276HP and 268 ft pounds tq. It is the added power and tq I am feeling that makes these special.
So we know ANDIAL numbers were engine dyno numbers and were showing 270-272hp. To clarify I looked #590 over very closely and my experience tells me the engine is untouched from ANDIAL. Unfortunately I can't prove it as the lead seal is missing but the safety wires appear to be original and untouched. When I removed the rear heat shields the sound deadening pillows were still in tact and clearly had never been removed before. The power is calculated so it could be optimistic but the car does have a cone air filter B&B headers and pretty much a dual straight pipe out. The B&B muffler disintegrated as they all do. So I opened it up removed the metal bits and welded it back up again. So it is essentially an open can and boy does it sing at WOT. This could be where the added HP is coming from. I find the B&B adds a few ponies but not much.
It is my opinion that the ANDIAL prepped cars are a step beyond an RS in power but a bit heavier due to much of the US parts required to be supplied. I honestly feel these are the most underrated and unappreciated 964. Essentially an RS with a bit more power and a blank canvas you can easily build upon or leave as is.
Anyone with a port car or RS willing to have theirs tested on a mustang?
silly question @2swoosh . Where does your cup redline? Either the tachometer is miscalibrated between the RS and cup, or the cup has a redline that is about 500 rpm less. Really strange. I've seen it for a while and never brought it up.
silly question @2swoosh . Where does your cup redline? Either the tachometer is miscalibrated between the RS and cup, or the cup has a redline that is about 500 rpm less. Really strange. I've seen it for a while and never brought it up.
lol, went to the garage and checked it out 6800 starts the redline on the tach. I can re schedule another session with fresh 93 and 100 Octane and push it to the limit with fresh oil change. This time i'll bring an ear muff and a videographer.
lol, went to the garage and checked it out 6800 starts the redline on the tach. I can re schedule another session with fresh 93 and 100 Octane and push it to the limit with fresh oil change. This time i'll bring an ear muff and a videographer.
the tachs in mine are identical. but the actual redlines appeared different when you hit fuel cut.
Technically all 3.6 964 N/A engines should redline at 6700 +/-20rpm. I don't believe they offered another tach so it would need to be a special gage face if it reads differently.
So I finally dropped the engine out of the **** box to begin the rebuild. I will be documenting what I find. Both cars have similar graphs and power so I am expecting to see something but I guess we will find out.
This is 590's tach best pic I have so I believe it is stock.
The ECU's redline fuel cut off is quite accurate but is adjustable if you get someone like Steve Wong to reset the firmware for you. The tachometer can be out of calibration.
Also, below here are the Dynojet dyno results for my 964 Cup engine #342 showing 272.5 HP in the Andial list below and with a Dynojet Dyno run below that
NOTE: Ignore the red lines which are for a 3.8 engine I built for my current car run on the same dyno.
The Blue linesare for my old Cup showing 251.96 RWHP with the Cup air cleaner modification, the rear muffler bypass pipe and only the side muffler installed on 100 octane fuel.
The HP and Torque maxima are shown in the text below the graphs.
I would expect the dynojet to read more than a mustang they usually always do. IMO ANDIAL's numbers should be most accurate since AFAIK they were tested with an engine dyno. The question is what did the port cars dyno at? Were they less like the RoW RS is noted to be?
11-16-2022, 01:30 PM
