8V Dyno Mash
#46
Drifting
Please, we are kids with the unfortunate need to make our favorite, "Sports Car" Best of Breed. Most of the folks building these cars "playing" honestly with today's rides have issues: I'll share mine. Owned three 944's. Owned about 23 other sports cars, tracked most, had a fling with a few. Been married for two decades, and bought-sold many cars...only missed the 951's SOLD!
My wife has the records, done time with other cars. Some were faster, handled better, but I can drive the 951 well, fits me, and chose to build her as I like. I'm not one to take a loss, but $ here isn't relevant. Love these cars.
Neat piece of my current 951: The previous owner is getting married next weekend in Sonoma, and we've become dear friends. I have a shirt saying: Sonoma makes wine; Napa makes auto parts. Bringing that T Shirt to the wedding, know I'll wear it when appropriate.
G
My wife has the records, done time with other cars. Some were faster, handled better, but I can drive the 951 well, fits me, and chose to build her as I like. I'm not one to take a loss, but $ here isn't relevant. Love these cars.
Neat piece of my current 951: The previous owner is getting married next weekend in Sonoma, and we've become dear friends. I have a shirt saying: Sonoma makes wine; Napa makes auto parts. Bringing that T Shirt to the wedding, know I'll wear it when appropriate.
G
#47
Rennlist Member
Really? In what way Shawn? I'm definitely running a bigger cam than most of you guys. Shouldn't I be at least as advantaged by that or is it that as you guys are mostly running stock cams that you are seeing larger benefits when playing with ign?
Cam: Intake 293 x .537"
Ex 282 x .502"
114^ Lobe Separation advance 1^ cam.
Cam: Intake 293 x .537"
Ex 282 x .502"
114^ Lobe Separation advance 1^ cam.
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am going to do some more testing and research on this and I will let you know what I find.
#50
I am wondering if Corleone did not actually use a cam with relatively modest duration and overlap, considering his GT3582R 1.06.
With my short runner intake my engine ran more cleanly up top with the 9R cam than it did with the "272" cam I have in now. The cam brought more mid range than top end. It was not until I cranked up the boost from 1.2 bar to 1.5 bar that I really felt some big gains up top with the "272" cam on the short intake.
I am tempted to think Patrick that you may now need to go to the 1.06 turbine housing to reduce the torque drop past peak torque rpm, if adding ignition did not bring anything.
With my short runner intake my engine ran more cleanly up top with the 9R cam than it did with the "272" cam I have in now. The cam brought more mid range than top end. It was not until I cranked up the boost from 1.2 bar to 1.5 bar that I really felt some big gains up top with the "272" cam on the short intake.
I am tempted to think Patrick that you may now need to go to the 1.06 turbine housing to reduce the torque drop past peak torque rpm, if adding ignition did not bring anything.
Last edited by Thom; 08-04-2014 at 05:59 PM.
#51
Rennlist Member
Thanks Shawn / Thom.
tbh...the car is really pretty fast now and I'm thinking certainly for myself, once we crank up the boost a little on the bigger layout it's going to be damn rapid...but I do take your points. Maybe larger hot housing wouldn't be too difficult to try.
tbh...the car is really pretty fast now and I'm thinking certainly for myself, once we crank up the boost a little on the bigger layout it's going to be damn rapid...but I do take your points. Maybe larger hot housing wouldn't be too difficult to try.
#52
Drifting
SFR vs 333pg333 manifolds...
surely youre all running different turbos but with the similarities of curves from such different engines, maybe this is showing the 8v head limits? "limits" is a relative term as of course each of these cars would eat the face off most LS cars (in case OD is lurking)
surely youre all running different turbos but with the similarities of curves from such different engines, maybe this is showing the 8v head limits? "limits" is a relative term as of course each of these cars would eat the face off most LS cars (in case OD is lurking)
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Also, definitely clear 8V advantage going large bore to help minimize shrouding with larger intake valves.
#54
Drifting
The internal runners in my SFR intake have been completely redone using a flow bench. The 928 TB, full 4' intake, cad designed vertical intercooler, and three filter intake will flow enough air. We realized on the dyno tuning, the head was being "outflowed". I don't know if that's a scientific term, but the intake side of the equation pointed directly at the head. If you drive this car, it's not wanting. Cars like Patrick's, and Patrick himself, requires every gram of potential.
This intake resides in the front driver fender. Not pretty, but it flows air!
This intake resides in the front driver fender. Not pretty, but it flows air!
I agree, the head is a MAJOR factor. Patrick's head flows about 250 cfm at full lift and my head about 210 cfm. Sid did a large valve head on his new motor that also flows about 250 cfm. I have a 250+ head in the works but am not going to install until next Winter.
Also, definitely clear 8V advantage going large bore to help minimize shrouding with larger intake valves.
Also, definitely clear 8V advantage going large bore to help minimize shrouding with larger intake valves.
#55
Drifting
Two dyno charts from a previous 89 951 with a K27dr6, head work, etc. These were done one day apart. The first run showed 330whp 340tq. We installed larger injectors and a new chip then eventually recorded a run at 23psi. The 19psi run was done with 91 fuel, and the 23psi with 100 octane pump fuel. This setup was ideal having full tq by 3500rpm. Neat driver. Sold this car to Jeff in LA about 12 years ago. The car now has a 3.0 and continues to embarrass many top end LA rides.
Where are those 500whp 2.5 dyno's? Like to see them.
These dyno's were done in 1999 using Huntley Racing's MAF with their Split Second fuel controller. This was 15 years ago! Few cars back then were as fast as this hot 2.5 951!
Where are those 500whp 2.5 dyno's? Like to see them.
These dyno's were done in 1999 using Huntley Racing's MAF with their Split Second fuel controller. This was 15 years ago! Few cars back then were as fast as this hot 2.5 951!
#57
Rennlist Member
#58
Drifting
We have similar results. I'd like to see similar dyno charts above ours-with similar lines. I'm not a gambler, but don't think they exist.
Thanks for sharing your charts. Good to know we shared similar work towards the potential of the original 2.5 951 engine many years past with continued passion towards the 951's evolution.
Driving a well sorted 951 is one of the best auto experiences I've known.
G
#59
Stock 2.5-88 short block, O-ring, top decked, widefire gasket
ARP head studs
Ported head 47mm intake 235cfm at 0.495
Lindsey racing valvesprings
Late N/A 9R camshaft
Stock intake and exhaust manifolds
kkk/borgwarner hybrid turbo, 51mm in cold/61mm ex hot 8 housing
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Modified endtank on intercooler
2.5" Ic pipes
Full 3" stainless exhaust
Ecumaster EMU running full sequential
Ls2truck coils
Bosch -044 fuel pump
Bosch 1200cc injectors
E85
Turbo maxed out, the tuner choose to increase boost at mid range to make the power band broader.
Mottryck=Exhaust backpressure
//
Erik
Sweden
ARP head studs
Ported head 47mm intake 235cfm at 0.495
Lindsey racing valvesprings
Late N/A 9R camshaft
Stock intake and exhaust manifolds
kkk/borgwarner hybrid turbo, 51mm in cold/61mm ex hot 8 housing
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Modified endtank on intercooler
2.5" Ic pipes
Full 3" stainless exhaust
Ecumaster EMU running full sequential
Ls2truck coils
Bosch -044 fuel pump
Bosch 1200cc injectors
E85
Turbo maxed out, the tuner choose to increase boost at mid range to make the power band broader.
Mottryck=Exhaust backpressure
//
Erik
Sweden