lart951

I assume you didn't bother to read the article or the link i posted. at least in the states the 88 turbo s was faster than the 911T stock vs stock, the pinnacle and end of the 924/944/968 was the 968 Turbo S which outperformed the 911T of it's time and the 928GTS.

993GT

I did read and follow both, I was providing a direct (ownership)experience, I also stated the USA got ripped off on the power/power delivery of 930's, Canadian/Euro/ROW were much faster(300-330hp, 4.9 to60mph, 170mph) cars than what the US got. USA vs USA I could see them performing similarly, and for 95% of normal drivers, the 951S is probably the quicker track car as well. A 968TS I bet(no direct experience) is a great car, but also had to compete with the 965

lart951

perhaps in the straight line but not in the handling department.

Cheburator

Yes my friend... I call my 944 Turbo S race car The RWD Golf because it is... It has the built quality of a VW Golf GTI (not a bad thing in itself), it has probably half of the underpinnings of a VW Golf... Hell, it was not even built by Porsche in Weissach... Oh yeah, I forgot, it has Porsche written on the Mk 2 Golf 2 door handles, thus it must be a Porsche...

Who gives a **** what is it called? It handles nice enough and it is quick, it is eligible for racing in the Youngtimer at the Nurburgring and most importantly, unlike a nice 928 GTS 5-spd or E30 M3 from the period it is disposable...

Or perhaps to please you and lart, when I refer to my 944 Turbo S I should use "The Porsche which kind of saved the factory, but had a ****ty van engine until it got given 1/2 the lump from its bigger brother, rusts like hell and although very good, never really made it on any poster walls unlike the 911 or 928?" There, does that make you feel better?

You know, I am getting the feeling that quite a lot of people here are a great bunch and I can learn a lot of good things about the RWD Golf. But also a few people here are really up their own little, or actually, quite huge ***** too... I may be new to the 944 game, but when you get 438rwhp out of a normally aspirated 5.4ltr lump and the car is still totally drivable on the Street, and passes Euro emissions tests; perhaps then we can talk ****? Or when you actually figure out how to drysump the 4-pot so it stops puking bearing N2? We have... and I can show you a racing 928 engine with excess of 60hrs on it with ZERO carbonised oil on the piston crowns or bearing wear. The list of other things is endless.. But I digress, I forgot, I am dealing with the greatest ever car created on Earth, and it is one huge conspiracy by the 911 and 928 guys to mess things up for the 944 brigade...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P29nHru4fvI


Damn it, did I spy the fastest car in the World, being decimated by the lardy **** 928? Lart, quick my man, get on to YouTube... This video is a fake! It contradicts the laws of physics... Cannot be...

lart951

lol, why does always ends with either mark kibort or mark robinson e are those the only two 928's that race? lol i have seen that video a trillion times every time a 928 boys gets hurt that video comes along, anyway here, this is racing redefined , as you can see no 928's as you probably know they are non existent in any poc or pca race, maybe 1 or 2 kiborts or robinson.

Btw those little dissapearing dots in the rear are 911's lol

438rwhp for a 3800lbs car lol, a 350rwhp 951 @ 2900 lbs is all you need. My friend this is a war you can't win

Cheburator

Hey, I won a couple of battles at least - no counter argument that it is a VW Golf, no counter argument they are as cheap as chips for a reason, no counter argument they rust and finally, me hurt - nah, much more thick skinned than that...

And also, I have this warm fuzzy feeling inside I can actually afford a real Porsche... You know, developed from scratch by Porsche engineers in Weissach, not some former ***** at VW... With an engine developed by Porsche engineers at Weissach... With suspension actually befitting an exotic and not a common as muck Volks (People's) Wagen (Car). And finally, put together by hand by real Porsche assembly workers at Weissach, not some god forsaken place like Neckarsulm... With that I shall sign off... The banter and your fotoshop skills are good I must say, but I have a long day tomorrow including a visit to the Mecca of **** handling boring 2 door saloons, which kind of killed the 944 idea ultimately for Porsche... Can you guess where that is?

P.S. I still agree with you Porsche could not afford to let the 951 or 928 outperform their hallo model in every department. The same is happening with the Cayman now, even the R version is still slower than the 991, despite having the better chasis etc...

lart951

I like the 951 for what it's not because of the marquee, if I did care about money and status I would probably get at a councilman job at the city of bell.

ChrisJ951

Someone I know who's been around the 944 turbo game since 1986 said the cars were detuned during testing because they were outrunning the 911 Turbo's and Porsche couldn't have a $30k car be faster than a $60k car. When one of the top guys on the 944 Turbo development team suggested to the powers that be that the 944 Turbo replace the 911 Turbo he was soon fired.

hacker-pschorr

I have that issues somewhere in my Porsche memorabilia collection.

I also have the R&T Top Speed Shootout that included the 911 Turbo, 944 Turbo S and 928S4.

IMO that "test" helped kill the 928 and 944 development.
It might have been the first time the "main stream" media showed how much better both cars were over the 911 Turbo.
Look at the time line, both cars were kept "stale" while 911 development continued after that test.

Conspiracy theory.... probably. Just one of those coincidences I've always pondered.

Just think, if Porsche wouldn't have chickened out with the 928 replacing the 911, the 944 might have been able to be fully developed as the premier Porsche sports car while the 928 carried the GT torch.

We can dream.........

Reimu

Would you rather a ls 944 or a 928s4

Oddjob

Cute, doesn't know the difference between a 944 and a 914...

NM'87 951

I've always felt there were two sides to porsche. The more 'traditional' front engine rear drive cars, and the amazing engineered cars with the engine off the *** end. I haven't had the pleasure of driving both of them yet, so I'll refrain from going to deep into it.

I don't know history well enough to know where this battle was lost, and the 911 line became the more popular and recognizable car in the porsche lineup. I first fell in love with a late 80's early 90's 911, then learned of the 928, desired the 944 but never liked the 968. If I couldn't drive a 951, I would like a 911... and I'm not keen on the boxer/cayman look (feels small to me I guess @ 6'1").

Without knowing anything to make comparisons on performance, I judge on looks I guess.. and even on that I'm at a toss up. Why couldn't Porsche have produced and developed both lines equally?

theedge

Yeah, its always a laugh when trolls out themselves.

hacker-pschorr

That's the $million question.

Economics? Porsche was on very hard times in the late 80's. It's ironic how the 944 kept the company afloat...... yet they probably didn't have the budget to fully develop it.

Porsche started to "replace" the 911 in the early 70's when they started development of the 928. Porsche saw a future void of "pure" sports cars and a market for a high end GT (the 928). They realized at some point they were wrong and the 928's fate was sealed.
Google the first American to run Porsche for more on that story......

Once the decision was made to keep the 911 as the Porsche flagship, every effort was made to keep the 911 the flagship, even if other projects creeped up on it's performance.

The 944 was an easy cash cow for a struggling company. The problem for German engineers is, even a simple design as the 944 was so perfect it threatened the lifeblood of the 911 which at that point was still based on a design from the 60's.

Fast forward to today. The Cayman is everything the 944 could have been while the 911 has morphed into a car the same size and weight as a 928 (or damn close compared to a 911 form the early 80's).

Porsche was right that the future of the company was not in a lightweight pure sports car. The problem is they were a decade or so too early with that idea.

Oddjob

I have seen Schutz interviewed, telling this story of how he kept the 911 from being cancelled.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features...ories-the-suit