Just ordered M-Tune!
05-20-2011, 10:25 AM
#46
Rogue does offer programming software, but it is not intended to work with A-Tune or M-Tune. A-Tune and M-Tune each use a MAF with true MAF code, along with a MAP sensor to compensate for air pressure changes induced by various different turbos. The addition of a 3-D fuel map for the entire rev range is also intended to enhance driveability.
A-Tune is for the stock AFM. M-Tune utilizes a MAF. A = AFM. M = MAF.
What they both use (A-Tune and M-Tune) is a MAP sensor and much better fuel and timing maps.
05-20-2011, 12:40 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
The M-tune does NOT allow you to tune the setup. However, there is no need to modify the "tune" when you change turbo's, heads, cams, etc, because the M-tune will compensate for it automatically. That is the beauty of the MAF sensor.
The only thing you might have to have adjusted for is different injectors....but if you buy the 80# injectors RogueTuning has as an option for the M-tune, then there will be no adjustment needed, and it should be all the fuel you will ever need...gas or e85.
Also, minor changes can be made via the FQS switch that is on the DME.
The only thing you might have to have adjusted for is different injectors....but if you buy the 80# injectors RogueTuning has as an option for the M-tune, then there will be no adjustment needed, and it should be all the fuel you will ever need...gas or e85.
Also, minor changes can be made via the FQS switch that is on the DME.
05-20-2011, 12:47 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Give this a read: http://roguetuning.com/multi-dimensional_mapping
05-20-2011, 12:48 PM
#49
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Thread Starter
No, A-Tune does not include an aftermarket MAF sensor. That's what M-Tune is for, and that's where you get "true" MAF code. After re-reading my response, I definitely could have worded that better.
05-20-2011, 12:51 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
That is where the MAP sensor comes in, it uses boost pressure to change ignition timing.
Give this a read: http://roguetuning.com/multi-dimensional_mapping
Give this a read: http://roguetuning.com/multi-dimensional_mapping
05-20-2011, 02:09 PM
#51
Drive-by provocation guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NAS PAX River, by way of Orlando
Posts: 10,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just know the difference from when I drove my car from the A-tune after installing the M-tune, it was amazing. It's just so much easier to drive everywhere, throttle is MUCH more responsive, the car has an AWESOME growling sound from the intake, the sound of the recirc valve is very audible, and the car just gets up and scoots. the night I installed it, I was driving next to a wall every opportunity I got, opening the throttle, and closing it just to hear the turbo spool, then blow off. It just pulls, and pulls. the off-boost driveability improved over the AFM incredibly. it just is smooth as silk running. I'm excited to see more 951's running the M-tune, because it's such an amazing product.
05-20-2011, 02:40 PM
#52
Nordschleife Master
Keeping this very general, the MAF is used to determine fueling needs. It knows exactly how much air has entered the engine (by mass), and can then add the correct amount of fuel.
The MAP is used to determine timing, based on vacuum or boost.
Throw in some RPM from the reference sensors, and you can run our engines, with any modifications, correctly up to ~600rwhp.
05-20-2011, 03:55 PM
#54
It really can be the case.....
Keeping this very general, the MAF is used to determine fueling needs. It knows exactly how much air has entered the engine (by mass), and can then add the correct amount of fuel.
The MAP is used to determine timing, based on vacuum or boost.
Throw in some RPM from the reference sensors, and you can run our engines, with any modifications, correctly up to ~600rwhp.
Keeping this very general, the MAF is used to determine fueling needs. It knows exactly how much air has entered the engine (by mass), and can then add the correct amount of fuel.
The MAP is used to determine timing, based on vacuum or boost.
Throw in some RPM from the reference sensors, and you can run our engines, with any modifications, correctly up to ~600rwhp.
05-20-2011, 04:20 PM
#55
Nordschleife Master
Well boost needs to be taken into consideration for fueling as well, not just air mass. Unless you're already making assumptions in the fueling tables about engine size and volumetric efficiency. You can alter the VE with a different turbo, head flow changes, exhaust changes, etc. On an N/A motor then you're ok just looking at air mass but once you get into boost situations you need different A/F ratios depending on where you're at with RPM and boost.
There is a LOT more to it... but the base of it is what I said.
05-20-2011, 11:46 PM
#57
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Thread Starter
Borrowing quote from another recent discussion:
Maybe Joshua will jump in with additional info...
Maybe Joshua will jump in with additional info...
05-21-2011, 01:31 AM
#58
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner
Ok, to answer some questions...
By measuring actual airflow, actual manifold pressure, and our 3-dimension maps, the M-Tune is quite good at adapting to different setups. Is it absolutely perfect, no. That said, we expect the AFR to be 95-97% on target, and ignition timing to be much better than previous 2-D and pseudo 3-D setups.
This is where the piggyback comes in. For those wanting to tweak the M-Tune to their exact setup, the PB is very capable. Not only does it allow full AFR adjustment, but it also has timing adjustment table as well.
Re: Stealth MAF option.
I'm currently looking into the economics of doing a stealth MAF option. The concern, as stated above, is to see if the demand is worth it - so to speak. At the price-point of the M-Tune, it will take a decent amount of kits to warrant the production cost of doing a stealth MAF... I am seriously considering it, however, I have not received that much interest as of yet.
By measuring actual airflow, actual manifold pressure, and our 3-dimension maps, the M-Tune is quite good at adapting to different setups. Is it absolutely perfect, no. That said, we expect the AFR to be 95-97% on target, and ignition timing to be much better than previous 2-D and pseudo 3-D setups.
This is where the piggyback comes in. For those wanting to tweak the M-Tune to their exact setup, the PB is very capable. Not only does it allow full AFR adjustment, but it also has timing adjustment table as well.
Re: Stealth MAF option.
I'm currently looking into the economics of doing a stealth MAF option. The concern, as stated above, is to see if the demand is worth it - so to speak. At the price-point of the M-Tune, it will take a decent amount of kits to warrant the production cost of doing a stealth MAF... I am seriously considering it, however, I have not received that much interest as of yet.
