Kevlar Timing Belt - Worth it?
11-01-2010, 08:41 AM
#151
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11-01-2010, 11:44 AM
#152
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Seriously, an off brand kevlar belt broke on an audi somewhere and you post it here. Get real man. Go try and find a pic of a gates racing timing belt broken and post it. At least it would look like you tried to contribute something relevant.
Hide yo kids and Hide you wife. Kevlar belts are busting everywhere in here. We gonna find you.
Hide yo kids and Hide you wife. Kevlar belts are busting everywhere in here. We gonna find you.
11-01-2010, 12:19 PM
#153
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Seriously, an off brand kevlar belt broke on an audi somewhere and you post it here. Get real man. Go try and find a pic of a gates racing timing belt broken and post it. At least it would look like you tried to contribute something relevant.
Hide yo kids and Hide you wife. Kevlar belts are busting everywhere in here. We gonna find you.
Hide yo kids and Hide you wife. Kevlar belts are busting everywhere in here. We gonna find you.
11-01-2010, 01:58 PM
#154
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Travis - when someone questions a product you sell, is it your standard practice to respond in the way you have in this thread, or is there some other kind of history that I just don’t know about going on behind the scenes? I only ask because I’m new here, and have a choice where I buy parts for my 951.
Since I’m doing a t-belt soon, I reviewed the product literature and called the tech line.
- Gates OE replacement timing belts are warranted for the replacement interval – 3 years/30k miles in our case (literature and tech line).
- Gate racing belts are warranted for 90 days, and the warranty is void if the product is used in racing or competition. No kidding – the “racing” belt 90-day warranty is voided if you use it for racing (literature and tech line).
- Gates racing belts will not accelerate the wear of tensioners/idlers as compared to OE replacement belts (tech line).
- Gates racing belts are intended for high-power applications, and as such should be replaced more often than the service interval in those cases (tech line).
- Gates racing belts used in street applications with power similar to stock, are considered “overkill” but still should be replaced at the OE interval (tech line).
Consumers can make up their own decisions, but for me, at stock HP, the Kevlar belt is the wrong choice – more $, same replacement interval, less warranty. If I were running 100HP over stock, or racing (even at stock HP) I’d use the belt.
Since I’m doing a t-belt soon, I reviewed the product literature and called the tech line.
- Gates OE replacement timing belts are warranted for the replacement interval – 3 years/30k miles in our case (literature and tech line).
- Gate racing belts are warranted for 90 days, and the warranty is void if the product is used in racing or competition. No kidding – the “racing” belt 90-day warranty is voided if you use it for racing (literature and tech line).
- Gates racing belts will not accelerate the wear of tensioners/idlers as compared to OE replacement belts (tech line).
- Gates racing belts are intended for high-power applications, and as such should be replaced more often than the service interval in those cases (tech line).
- Gates racing belts used in street applications with power similar to stock, are considered “overkill” but still should be replaced at the OE interval (tech line).
Consumers can make up their own decisions, but for me, at stock HP, the Kevlar belt is the wrong choice – more $, same replacement interval, less warranty. If I were running 100HP over stock, or racing (even at stock HP) I’d use the belt.
11-01-2010, 02:09 PM
#155
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To be fair, almost all of the aftermarket products I've bought from various vendors for other cars I've had over the years had a disclaimer in the warranty when used in competition.
11-01-2010, 02:38 PM
#156
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Agreed, but giving it far less warranty than the OE replacements, and voiding for competition is kind of silly IMO.
11-01-2010, 03:09 PM
#157
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Kevlar stops bullets. Guess what's in my car?
July 1, 2010: A British firm, BCB International, is offering troops Kevlar underpants, which have several layers of Kevlar around the groin and thigh area. This protects troops from genital damage, and projectiles that might sever the femoral arteries (which run down each leg, close to the inner thigh.) Bleeding from the femoral artery is a major cause of combat deaths, as it is very difficult to stop the flow of blood.
The "blast boxers" are being sold for about $100 a pair, and the idea was suggested by the troops themselves, and the medics that treat many of these wounds. The increased number of groin injuries come largely from the growing use of roadside bombs and mines by the Taliban in Afghanistan.
July 1, 2010: A British firm, BCB International, is offering troops Kevlar underpants, which have several layers of Kevlar around the groin and thigh area. This protects troops from genital damage, and projectiles that might sever the femoral arteries (which run down each leg, close to the inner thigh.) Bleeding from the femoral artery is a major cause of combat deaths, as it is very difficult to stop the flow of blood.
The "blast boxers" are being sold for about $100 a pair, and the idea was suggested by the troops themselves, and the medics that treat many of these wounds. The increased number of groin injuries come largely from the growing use of roadside bombs and mines by the Taliban in Afghanistan.
11-01-2010, 03:21 PM
#158
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I'd probably use a Kevlar belt if it were available for my car...but just to play Devil's advocate, I don't think "Kevlar stops bullets" is a terribly persuasive argument for Kevlar timing belts unless somebody's shooting at your engine.
11-01-2010, 03:36 PM
#159
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Kevlar is made of an extremely strong fabric called an aramid fabric, which is chemically related to nylon. This fabric, which is already very tough and durable, is then woven in a pattern similar to tiny spiderwebs all interlocked to provide additional strength and durability. Aramid fibers like kevlar are resistant to wear, tear and heat, and have absolutely no melting point.
11-01-2010, 04:02 PM
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Travis - when someone questions a product you sell, is it your standard practice to respond in the way you have in this thread, or is there some other kind of history that I just don’t know about going on behind the scenes? I only ask because I’m new here, and have a choice where I buy parts for my 951.
I do think Mark is a tool, for the record.
Consumers can make up their own decisions, but for me, at stock HP, the Kevlar belt is the wrong choice -
Its also not very nice to show a pic of a completely different brand of kevlar belt and compare it to the Gates one. That is intentionally misleading. It is like showing a Fiero with a body kit on a thread about a Ferrari.
11-01-2010, 04:14 PM
#161
TX951 i think if you research the material that the kevlar belt is made from its very smiliar to that of the 5 year 100k belts in the newer vehicles being produced.
The OEM style belts are still manufactured with neoprene which was great in the 80s but isnt up to the same standards that these newer belts are made from.
If i had a choice i would pick a non kevlar belt made from the newer material but that isnt avaliable.
Go on Gates and go on conitec and see what they list as the materials for these belts and do a search for the belt material on a newer car. Then research the actual material online and see what you find.
For example i drive a 2001 nissan xterra 3.3L and its OHC interference design engine and the replacement for the belts are 5 year 100k (but most snap around the 130k 8 year mark from what i have found on a xterra site) This belt is made from a similar composite material that the kevlar belt is made from.
The OEM style belts are still manufactured with neoprene which was great in the 80s but isnt up to the same standards that these newer belts are made from.
If i had a choice i would pick a non kevlar belt made from the newer material but that isnt avaliable.
Go on Gates and go on conitec and see what they list as the materials for these belts and do a search for the belt material on a newer car. Then research the actual material online and see what you find.
For example i drive a 2001 nissan xterra 3.3L and its OHC interference design engine and the replacement for the belts are 5 year 100k (but most snap around the 130k 8 year mark from what i have found on a xterra site) This belt is made from a similar composite material that the kevlar belt is made from.
11-01-2010, 04:18 PM
#162
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11-01-2010, 06:00 PM
#164
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I don't see why horse power and belt strength are being linked. I can see racing vs street use, since the overall operating rpm will be higher and there are lots of fluctuations in rpm with faster shifting. The only other difference would be that engines with higher hp may also have stiffer valve springs.
All else being equal, free revving the engine will put more strain on the belt than any race acceleration condition, regardless of engine hp. Ever wonder why most people who have had the belt break, have "I was leaving a stop sign (or traffic light) when the belt broke" in their posts? Its because we put more strain on the belt leaving from a stop in first gear than we do in a full throttle pull in third gear.
Sure the use of kevlar in this belt is probably overkill. In fact I think its the presence of this, buzz word, material that has fueled this whole thread. Most people are questioning the need of a kevlar belt, when in reality its the rest of the belt material that makes these a good choice. The fact that kevlar is used in the belt's construction is just a secondary feature. But buzz words like kevlar get the sales dept all hot and excited so they push that feature above all else, even if it adds little value to the overall design.
Travis-
Any plans to carry these or a modern non kevlar belt to fit the 968?
All else being equal, free revving the engine will put more strain on the belt than any race acceleration condition, regardless of engine hp. Ever wonder why most people who have had the belt break, have "I was leaving a stop sign (or traffic light) when the belt broke" in their posts? Its because we put more strain on the belt leaving from a stop in first gear than we do in a full throttle pull in third gear.
Sure the use of kevlar in this belt is probably overkill. In fact I think its the presence of this, buzz word, material that has fueled this whole thread. Most people are questioning the need of a kevlar belt, when in reality its the rest of the belt material that makes these a good choice. The fact that kevlar is used in the belt's construction is just a secondary feature. But buzz words like kevlar get the sales dept all hot and excited so they push that feature above all else, even if it adds little value to the overall design.
Travis-
Any plans to carry these or a modern non kevlar belt to fit the 968?
11-01-2010, 06:14 PM
#165
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I don't see why horse power and belt strength are being linked. I can see racing vs street use, since the overall operating rpm will be higher and there are lots of fluctuations in rpm with faster shifting. The only other difference would be that engines with higher hp may also have stiffer valve springs.
All else being equal, free revving the engine will put more strain on the belt than any race acceleration condition, regardless of engine hp. Ever wonder why most people who have had the belt break, have "I was leaving a stop sign (or traffic light) when the belt broke" in their posts? Its because we put more strain on the belt leaving from a stop in first gear than we do in a full throttle pull in third gear.
Sure the use of kevlar in this belt is probably overkill. In fact I think its the presence of this, buzz word, material that has fueled this whole thread. Most people are questioning the need of a kevlar belt, when in reality its the rest of the belt material that makes these a good choice. The fact that kevlar is used in the belt's construction is just a secondary feature. But buzz words like kevlar get the sales dept all hot and excited so they push that feature above all else, even if it adds little value to the overall design.
Travis-
Any plans to carry these or a modern non kevlar belt to fit the 968?
All else being equal, free revving the engine will put more strain on the belt than any race acceleration condition, regardless of engine hp. Ever wonder why most people who have had the belt break, have "I was leaving a stop sign (or traffic light) when the belt broke" in their posts? Its because we put more strain on the belt leaving from a stop in first gear than we do in a full throttle pull in third gear.
Sure the use of kevlar in this belt is probably overkill. In fact I think its the presence of this, buzz word, material that has fueled this whole thread. Most people are questioning the need of a kevlar belt, when in reality its the rest of the belt material that makes these a good choice. The fact that kevlar is used in the belt's construction is just a secondary feature. But buzz words like kevlar get the sales dept all hot and excited so they push that feature above all else, even if it adds little value to the overall design.
Travis-
Any plans to carry these or a modern non kevlar belt to fit the 968?
Not really adding more resistance with stiffer valve springs to the belt because the belt "sees" the entire system. As one spring gets compressed, another is decompressed, and this opposing decompression assists the compression - it remains relative.