330 RWHP, component choices?
05-13-2010, 05:14 PM
#61
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It's a K27/6 with a clipped compressor wheel.
This was sold by Powerhaus (David Rein) as a "light weight" fast spool option.
TonyG
05-13-2010, 05:16 PM
#62
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Could CF ever be used or too much heat?
05-13-2010, 05:18 PM
#63
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What's more modern about a new compressor? Nothing.
It's just a different compressor, producing a different compressor map. These new maps might be better suited to a particular engine setup or not.
There have been no big "break throughs" on compressor design.
The key now, which has always been the key, is to properly size a turbo.
TonyG
05-13-2010, 06:02 PM
#64
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Use CF on what? The turbo itself?
05-13-2010, 10:27 PM
#65
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Just a note on all the "more modern..." comments.
What's more modern about a new compressor? Nothing.
It's just a different compressor, producing a different compressor map. These new maps might be better suited to a particular engine setup or not.
There have been no big "break throughs" on compressor design.
The key now, which has always been the key, is to properly size a turbo.
TonyG
What's more modern about a new compressor? Nothing.
It's just a different compressor, producing a different compressor map. These new maps might be better suited to a particular engine setup or not.
There have been no big "break throughs" on compressor design.
The key now, which has always been the key, is to properly size a turbo.
TonyG
05-13-2010, 10:44 PM
#66
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Yes it is - I ran one for years, have taken it apart and measured it.
Turbine housing is #6, and wheel is a #8.
In fact, to convert to my current K27/8 all I did was remove the machined #6 housing and instead use #8 turbine housing.
05-14-2010, 12:39 AM
#67
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Hmmm,
this is interesting
As I understand it the # 6 housing stands for 6 cm (squared). So, if they machined the #6 housing to fit the bigger wheel wouldn't the exhaust discharge area (the orignal 6 squared cm) have to be slightly enlarged? Another words it would have to be cut back to a larger section of the cone to fit the bigger wheel?
05-14-2010, 01:49 AM
#68
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Hmmm,
this is interesting
As I understand it the # 6 housing stands for 6 cm (squared). So, if they machined the #6 housing to fit the bigger wheel wouldn't the exhaust discharge area (the orignal 6 squared cm) have to be slightly enlarged? Another words it would have to be cut back to a larger section of the cone to fit the bigger wheel?
this is interesting
As I understand it the # 6 housing stands for 6 cm (squared). So, if they machined the #6 housing to fit the bigger wheel wouldn't the exhaust discharge area (the orignal 6 squared cm) have to be slightly enlarged? Another words it would have to be cut back to a larger section of the cone to fit the bigger wheel?
05-14-2010, 02:37 AM
#69
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its area :radius ratio so when you machine it out for bigger wheel the radius from the turbine spindle changes also so it effects it in 2 ways . any way what ever difference will be far overshadowed by the change in wheel
05-14-2010, 02:42 AM
#70
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After some years of chassis upgrades I'm thinking of doing something about the engine. The car is a 951 -90 and is more or less only used as a track-day car.
Plan is to reach 320-330 rwhp with upgrades below, but I need some feedback on if it will work and on the component choices.
- #55 injectors (already in place)
- MAF-kit (Tomas J version)
- Larger turbo, not sure what to choose?
- 100 cpi cat and single muffler system (already in place)
- Dbilas sport camshaft 280/114 11.7mm ex/in lift (or road version 272/112 12.0mm ex/in lift)
- New wastegate or modified original?
The big question is the turbo choice. It needs to be bolt-on and better spool-up would be welcome. I don't think I'll go for ball-bearing, I find it hard to justify the extra cost.
I'm thinking of the normal Garrett/KKK hybrid like this one: http://www.speedforceracing.com/index.php?productID=746 but I 've I also heard people using a K27 with #6 exhaust with good results?
What other options are there in similar price range?
I'm a little unsure on the cam. There are opinions that a new cam isn't needed as long as you stay below 400hp but my experiance from other engines is that a better cam makes quite a difference. The Dbilas sport cam is a little strange in that the intake lift is actually a bit lower than original 11,7mm vs 12mm.
Feedback?
/Dea
Plan is to reach 320-330 rwhp with upgrades below, but I need some feedback on if it will work and on the component choices.
- #55 injectors (already in place)
- MAF-kit (Tomas J version)
- Larger turbo, not sure what to choose?
- 100 cpi cat and single muffler system (already in place)
- Dbilas sport camshaft 280/114 11.7mm ex/in lift (or road version 272/112 12.0mm ex/in lift)
- New wastegate or modified original?
The big question is the turbo choice. It needs to be bolt-on and better spool-up would be welcome. I don't think I'll go for ball-bearing, I find it hard to justify the extra cost.
I'm thinking of the normal Garrett/KKK hybrid like this one: http://www.speedforceracing.com/index.php?productID=746 but I 've I also heard people using a K27 with #6 exhaust with good results?
What other options are there in similar price range?
I'm a little unsure on the cam. There are opinions that a new cam isn't needed as long as you stay below 400hp but my experiance from other engines is that a better cam makes quite a difference. The Dbilas sport cam is a little strange in that the intake lift is actually a bit lower than original 11,7mm vs 12mm.
Feedback?
/Dea
Vitesse and LR can both provide you with kits that will do far more than you want, and at reasonble boost levels, with the ability to access more power if you want to do so. Pick one and move on.
05-14-2010, 09:13 PM
#71
Rennlist Junkie Forever
But you didn't use the turbine larger wheel?
Are you saying that the two turbine wheels are the same? (the #6 wheel is not smaller than the #8 wheel....)
In any case.... it's very well documented that the difference, with respect to spool time with a #6 turbine and #8 turbine are about 500 rpms apples-to-apples.
Your dyno is not representative any of the K26/6 or K27/6 dyno's I've ever seen (and I've seen and dynoed a crap load of them over the years).... thus my comment.
TonyG
05-14-2010, 09:27 PM
#72
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Huh? The #8 wheel is larger then the #6 wheel.
The DR uses the larger #8 turbine wheel. And machined #6 housing.
When I converted the turbo, all I used was the #8 housing, as the turbo already used the #8 wheel. Thus a full K27/8.
-Rogue
The DR uses the larger #8 turbine wheel. And machined #6 housing.
When I converted the turbo, all I used was the #8 housing, as the turbo already used the #8 wheel. Thus a full K27/8.
-Rogue
05-14-2010, 09:40 PM
#73
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Years ago when I took them apart, the only difference I saw between the regular K27/6 and the K27/6 DR was a clipped compressor wheel.
I never compared the turbines of the K27/6 & K27/6 DR but they looked the same visually.
TonyG
05-14-2010, 09:57 PM
#74
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I will try to dig up the pictures, but I 100% guarantee that the DR uses the #8 turbine wheel in a #6 housing.
From PH website:
They were trying to make a turbo with the best of both worlds, and did so by using the combo I mentioned. And yes the 'quick-spool' was/is a result of the tighter turbine housing.
From PH website:
PH K-27-DR Turbo Conversion: A special quick-spool version of our K-27 that combines the top-end power of the #8 turbine with the low rpm responsiveness of the smaller #6 turbine. Ideal for drivers seeking the most performance from their 944 Turbo. A PowerHaus Exclusive
05-14-2010, 10:01 PM
#75
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Cool...
BTW... I did the Powerhaus site years ago (or rather cleaned it up from what it was). It's been like it is for like 6-7 years. Looks very dated now. Not sure it's been updated since then!
TonyG