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951s LS1?

 
Old 04-07-2009, 09:18 PM
  #61  
CPR
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These conversion threads only seem to become relevant when AFTER someone destroys their motor AND/OR has a NA (read: turbo envy). The subsequent result of equating German HP to American dollars is a bit too rich for most 944 owners (part of the reason some...SOME...of the owners have one in the first place because they are cheap) and thus they waste away the day defending their option to put a rat motor in a Porsche, wishing for the blessing of still being able to call it a Porsche....

If these 2.5l's cost $1000 to replace I am sure we would hearing the exact opposite. In fact more than half of those defending the converts would cry "Blasphemy" if this was the case. But alas, it is not. They are expensive to repair when broken, which anyone who has done their homework should surely know before buying....but in alot of cases most just want a Porsche. To hell with the 200k miles...."No records?"...to hell with records. Then when they break these great little motors become the biggest piece of ****s to ever be produced.

If you want cheap HP...buy a Honda...American muscle? Buy a Vette or a Stang. If you want a great handling, German engineered, sporty looking (even today), ***** out 4 banger? 951. period.

Just my POS .02
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:27 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by CPR View Post
These conversion threads only seem to become relevant when AFTER someone destroys their motor AND/OR has a NA (read: turbo envy).The subsequent result of equating German HP to American dollars is a bit too rich for most 944 owners (part of the reason some...SOME...of the owners have one in the first place because they are cheap) and thus they waste away the day defending their option to put a rat motor in a Porsche, wishing for the blessing of still being able to call it a Porsche....

If you want cheap HP...buy a Honda...American muscle? Buy a Vette or a Stang. If you want a great handling, German engineered, sporty looking (even today), ***** out 4 banger? 951. period.
Okay, I get it. You're sentimentally attached to a brand logo. (Or maybe not-so-sentimentally. You are, after all, a vendor of 944 parts.)

I'll tell you why *I* am doing this (as opposed to some speculative "most" or "some" owners, into whose mouths one can safely put words, because generalizations cannot speak for themselves).

It's because I have a sentimental attachment, too. To the 944 in particular. i love the way it looks. I love the way it handles. I love the way it feels, and the way it smells.

If I wanted to the cheapest way to get a higher-powered 944, I'd buy a turbo. A well-sorted turbo only costs 15k or so. That's pretty cheap. Way cheaper than a well-sorted LS series hybrid.

If I wanted the most hp for my dollars, I'd buy a 'vette. (Of course, then I'd have to grow a mullet, and start listening to 80s heavy metal hair bands, which would be really unpleasant and humiliating.)

What I want is the nicest 944 I can put together. And swapping in a modern engine is part of that picture.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:33 PM
  #63  
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One Question:

Was this decision made before or after your engine imploded?

Back reading threads would leave one to believe it was the latter, as you pondered repairing it IIRC.

BTW...Jeremy doesn't have a mullet, but not sure about the 80's music
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:40 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by 968ls1 View Post
I have bee reading this thread and I could not be quiet any longer. If you want to see an LS1 converted Pcar smoke a 997 just show up at Road Atlanta on April 25th and 26th. Be sure and bring your camera so you won't forget what you saw when you get back home.
What's up at RA on the 25th/26th ?

Might come watch the beat down
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:24 AM
  #65  
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Blown 951-Mods to my engine are simple: forged internal 404 LS2 short block, ported 243 GM heads, conservative custom grind Comp Cam, headers and tuning. Total cost of long block $5800.00 I used all the other components from my old LS1 when I did the conversion 5 years ago and I sold my old long block for $2600, it was in great condition.

Here is the deal,
I have owned, worked on and driven several high HP prepared 951's over the last 20 years and I respect the HP they can make, but the fact is 400+ rwhp 951 engines don't last long when subjected to heavy track use and they require a lot of attention. When I built my first LT-1 951 12 years ago I was the outsider at DE events until other 951 owners realized how well it worked and it did not break, or require constant attention. Six of the guys that I have done conversion for or assisted with were guys who had high dollar/HP 951 engines that blew up and they were tired of spending the same money over and over. If you are a Porsche purist great but the fact is the LSX engines are designed and built with more modern engineering and a much more simple design than a turbo 4 designed in the 80's. It all comes down to personal preference, I wanted something different, a German chassis/body with V8 torque, power and reliability. I once thought I wanted a C5 ZO6 vette until I drove a few and they just don't have that connected feel of the 944/968 chassis-(the C6 Z06 is a different story but they are 50K or more). Guys who bash the LSX conversions usually have never driven one that has been properly converted. They are uninformed and spouting BS; I usually ignore them as it is a wast of my time. If anyone is considering a conversion I would offer my knowledge gained over the last 12 years and would be happy to help with information and ways to do it with out spending unnecessary $$$.
Regards,
Tom

P.S. I too listen to some 80's music but my mullet is very very short now.
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:27 AM
  #66  
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David-PCA Drivers Ed at RA on the 25th & 26th, there will be one other converted 944 and my 968. Hope to meet you there!

Tom
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:35 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by 968ls1 View Post
David-PCA Drivers Ed at RA on the 25th & 26th, there will be one other converted 944 and my 968. Hope to meet you there!

Tom
If you are who I think you are, you actually were my instructor at Little Talledega back in 2001.

You were sorting out a freshly built V8
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:35 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by CPR View Post
One Question:

Was this decision made before or after your engine imploded?

Back reading threads would leave one to believe it was the latter, as you pondered repairing it IIRC.
A fair question.

The decision was made after the engine imploded, but also after the engine was repaired again.

Another factor was my decision to abandon my failing freelance software business (hit hard by the economy) and take a job as an engineer in the aerospace industry. This enabled me to afford a somewhat more ambitious schedule of upgrades.

I also considered buying a Cayman, but my affection for the 944 won out.

So you're correct in that performance was not the sole consideration. Another was the reliability and peace of mind afforded by a new crate engine, especially the LS series, which have a certain reputation for being "bulletproof", if not overly sophisticated.

I'm also going to be getting new paint, an LSD 951 trans which is waiting to go in, and having the interior redone by Paul Champagne. Maybe some custom wheels as well.

So, in order of priority:

Pros:

1. Performance
2. Reliability
3. Shiny-new-stuff appeal.
4. Uniqueness-of-ride appeal. (Yes, I know it's not that uncommon around here. But on the street?)

Cons:
1. More expensive than leaving it as it is, or buying a turbo.
2. Lengthy upgrade process (rather than simply buy-and-drive).
3. Get sneered at by Porsche "purists".

In the end, the pros won out. I first bought the 944 because I wanted something stylish, not because I specifically wanted something Porsche.

I could have gone to a 928, but I just don't like the look of them. Too dull, too bullet-shaped. No curves. The Cayman was tempting (they are secsi), as was the 996, but...

Frankly, what finally decided me was just that I liked the idea of taking the bastard stepchild of the Porsche family, and turning it into the coolest thing I could. Others may think I'm weird, but it makes me smile.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:23 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by INURGRL951 View Post
Really Rocket I just like to see one of those V8 swap ones keep up with my modded 951!
take the amount of money you spent making your 951 competitive with a stock LSx engine and apply it to the LS engine and you will lose every day of the week. probably even with half that.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:29 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket_aka944 View Post
take the amount of money you spent making your 951 competitive with a stock LSx engine and apply it to the LS engine and you will lose every day of the week. probably even with half that.
I'd have to agree. I've watched TonyG's videos. He hangs with some pretty amazing cup/race cars.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:33 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by 968ls1 View Post
Blown 951-Mods to my engine are simple: forged internal 404 LS2 short block, ported 243 GM heads, conservative custom grind Comp Cam, headers and tuning. Total cost of long block $5800.00 I used all the other components from my old LS1 when I did the conversion 5 years ago and I sold my old long block for $2600, it was in great condition.

Here is the deal,
I have owned, worked on and driven several high HP prepared 951's over the last 20 years and I respect the HP they can make, but the fact is 400+ rwhp 951 engines don't last long when subjected to heavy track use and they require a lot of attention. When I built my first LT-1 951 12 years ago I was the outsider at DE events until other 951 owners realized how well it worked and it did not break, or require constant attention. Six of the guys that I have done conversion for or assisted with were guys who had high dollar/HP 951 engines that blew up and they were tired of spending the same money over and over. If you are a Porsche purist great but the fact is the LSX engines are designed and built with more modern engineering and a much more simple design than a turbo 4 designed in the 80's. It all comes down to personal preference, I wanted something different, a German chassis/body with V8 torque, power and reliability. I once thought I wanted a C5 ZO6 vette until I drove a few and they just don't have that connected feel of the 944/968 chassis-(the C6 Z06 is a different story but they are 50K or more). Guys who bash the LSX conversions usually have never driven one that has been properly converted. They are uninformed and spouting BS; I usually ignore them as it is a wast of my time. If anyone is considering a conversion I would offer my knowledge gained over the last 12 years and would be happy to help with information and ways to do it with out spending unnecessary $$$.
Regards,
Tom

P.S. I too listen to some 80's music but my mullet is very very short now.
Thanks
that sounds like a great combination

I would have to agree after pushing these little 4's to some extremes myself, that they are not as reliable as an LSx. I have had some real good luck and some bad luck with 2 different engines.

At this point I am going to do a swap because I am just plain abusive to my DD.

My plan is to do a swap in the DD even though I have big bore ~2.8 in the works.

There is however the feeling of the turbo rush and I am going to try to keep at least one of these things setup with a 4. Hopefully it'll last long enough to track it a few times.

I just finished putting together a 415 (4.125 stroke) iron block for my brother so I am familiar with the LS engines. It runs pretty darn good considering the car now weighs close to 4k.
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Old 04-08-2009, 03:44 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by 968ls1 View Post
If you are a Porsche purist great but the fact is the LSX engines are designed and built with more modern engineering and a much more simple design than a turbo 4 designed in the 80's. It all comes down to personal preference, I wanted something different, a German chassis/body with V8 torque, power and reliability. I once thought I wanted a C5 ZO6 vette until I drove a few and they just don't have that connected feel of the 944/968 chassis-(the C6 Z06 is a different story but they are 50K or more). Guys who bash the LSX conversions usually have never driven one that has been properly converted. They are uninformed and spouting BS; I usually ignore them as it is a wast of my time. If anyone is considering a conversion I would offer my knowledge gained over the last 12 years and would be happy to help with information and ways to do it with out spending unnecessary
I'm all ears. I would love to have your feedback when I post the full rundown of my plans for the ls3 conversion.

Which should be soon now, I'm driving out to Vegas to talk to the guys at Renegade next week.

P.S. I too listen to some 80's music but my mullet is very very short now.
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:27 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket_aka944 View Post
take the amount of money you spent making your 951 competitive with a stock LSx engine and apply it to the LS engine and you will lose every day of the week. probably even with half that.
Hmm, maybe performance per dollar of a 951 vs 951 w/LSX the LSX will win. But that is only after the initial conversion cost of the LSX...


-Rogue
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:16 AM
  #74  
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well, Im doing it because of power delivery, not just money, my other alternative was a 3.0 16v. I'm going to race it, and probably kill a few engines a long the way, replacing the LS will cost a whole lot less. driven with a turbo engine last 2 years, and i'm quite positive at same powerlevels I will shave 1-2 secs a lap.
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:28 AM
  #75  
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Default why dont you leave the LSx engine in the corvette

This may be a stupid question ,but isn't it much simpler to leave the gm engine in the gm car and do some mods to improve handling ?
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