data search - cost to get 500rwhp
02-21-2009, 04:08 AM
#78
02-21-2009, 07:47 AM
#79
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So how about change this question to how much you are willing to spend initially on the project. Then you can get a better idea here. After reading you spent $550 on a 944 in decent condition, I think we need to reevaluate this question. Your idea of a decent 944 may not even be scrap for someone else so a decent amount of money on a 3 liter build may be outrageous in your eyes. I spent a ton of money on my 3 liter. Five years, no problems, but the tranny will tell you a different story as I broke second gear and haven't driven the car in over two years. But I will again...I will again...
02-21-2009, 09:13 AM
#80
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Only if we change the discussion from expansion rates to heat transfer! Semantics aside I think we agree on some basic stuff.
BTW – interesting point here, the aluminum chevy block is....sleeved!
Back to the original post...looking back on whats been posted I think that I like some of the thoughts of the poster – he is your basic hot rodder looking to make something interesting. Is it a purest Porsche...no, will it be a track car....no, can he pull up to the local burger joint in a ride he built himself, pop he hood and get some comments...yes.
So, just for project sake I would say go for the V8, doesn’t matter if its iron or alum, just have fun with the project.
BTW – interesting point here, the aluminum chevy block is....sleeved!
Back to the original post...looking back on whats been posted I think that I like some of the thoughts of the poster – he is your basic hot rodder looking to make something interesting. Is it a purest Porsche...no, will it be a track car....no, can he pull up to the local burger joint in a ride he built himself, pop he hood and get some comments...yes.
So, just for project sake I would say go for the V8, doesn’t matter if its iron or alum, just have fun with the project.
02-21-2009, 02:49 PM
#81
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I didn't read all 6 pages, but my question would be "why 500?". The transaxles just really don't like all that power, and for the weight of the car, it's not really necessary unless you just want bragging rights.
I went for 400hp, and it was easy with the LS (not to mention reliable). Adios!
02-21-2009, 02:59 PM
#82
The Impaler
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No, everyone and their mother has a 944 with a 2.5 or 3.0L in it. THOSE get old after a while
I didn't read all 6 pages, but my question would be "why 500?". The transaxles just really don't like all that power, and for the weight of the car, it's not really necessary unless you just want bragging rights.
I went for 400hp, and it was easy with the LS (not to mention reliable). Adios!
I didn't read all 6 pages, but my question would be "why 500?". The transaxles just really don't like all that power, and for the weight of the car, it's not really necessary unless you just want bragging rights.
I went for 400hp, and it was easy with the LS (not to mention reliable). Adios!
I never come across turbo 3.0L 951's at shows etc, but I never fail to see plenty of cars with LS swaps, including a 944 or two.
02-21-2009, 03:25 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Here's a real world, actual experience, report for you... Starting with a typical 951, here is a list of about $20k worth of items for a 3L.
Block with 88mm crank $2,000
Block/crank machining/polishing $500
Carrillo Rods $1000
Mahle Pistons $1300
2.7 Head $1200
Head/valve rebuild $700
951 exhaust valves $100
Swain coat exhaust ports $150
Jet coat headers/exhaust $200
3” exhaust turbo to tip: $1500
VR 5 $4400
big injectors $400
FPR $50
044 Pump with adapter $275
Clutch Package $1500
Cam/lifters (optional) $1100
Head gasket set w/widefire $175
Lower gasket set $175
Raceware (odd size) studs $350
Misc. Fasteners $150 (main nuts, locknuts, etc.)
Main bearings (std) $200
Rod bearings $80
Balance shaft bearings $50
Special loctites, sealants $150
Cap, rotor, plugs, wires $250
Coolant, oil, p/s fluid, filter $50
Belts (tbelt, b/s, p/s, a/c), rollers, wpump $450
Thermostats $75
H2O hoses, vacuum lines, couplers, clamps $350
Add’l seals/gaskets $200
Motor Mounts $300
Fuel lines $125
That list assumes you already have things like tial wastegate, boost gauge, boost controller, wideband system, forge bypass, strong transaxle and CV joints, etc. Otherwise, add those in too. My original tranny blew up promptly after turning the boost up, and I'm not alone.
That list also excludes labor if you are paying to have it done. If you decide to "save money" doing it yourself, be prepared to buy lots of tools and supplies to the extent you don't already have them, such as a good ring compressor, torque wrench, engine hoist, rod bolt stretch gauge, dial indicators, belt tensioner, micrometers, oprv alignment tool, drifts for b/s bearings, clutch alignment tools, port-matching bits, cc'ing kit, kimwipes, brakeclean, gun cleaners, oilstones, assembly lube, etc.
That also assumes you don't want to replate or paint anything, or do any "while you're in there things" like I and most people end up doing.
Are you willing to spend that money and use old ref, temp, knock sensors? If not, add those in too.
Are you going to trust a 20 year old OPRV with all that hardware at stake? No? Then add another few hundred. And, wouldn't it be nice to have a new oil pump while you're at it?
That also assumes that nothing gets fouled up during assemby with no need to buy replacements. Every seal slides right in, nothing needs to be disassembled, etc. Add a buffer for that too.
That also excludes additional performance parts needed to get you to an honest 500 to the wheels -- bigger TB/Intake, better headers, bigger intercooler, better ignition, etc.
It is worth it however. I'd do it again without hesistation!!
Starting with a typical 951, here is a list of about $20k worth of items for a 3L.Block with 88mm crank $2,000
Block/crank machining/polishing $500
Carrillo Rods $1000
Mahle Pistons $1300
2.7 Head $1200
Head/valve rebuild $700
951 exhaust valves $100
Swain coat exhaust ports $150
Jet coat headers/exhaust $200
3” exhaust turbo to tip: $1500
VR 5 $4400
big injectors $400
FPR $50
044 Pump with adapter $275
Clutch Package $1500
Cam/lifters (optional) $1100
Head gasket set w/widefire $175
Lower gasket set $175
Raceware (odd size) studs $350
Misc. Fasteners $150 (main nuts, locknuts, etc.)
Main bearings (std) $200
Rod bearings $80
Balance shaft bearings $50
Special loctites, sealants $150
Cap, rotor, plugs, wires $250
Coolant, oil, p/s fluid, filter $50
Belts (tbelt, b/s, p/s, a/c), rollers, wpump $450
Thermostats $75
H2O hoses, vacuum lines, couplers, clamps $350
Add’l seals/gaskets $200
Motor Mounts $300
Fuel lines $125
That list assumes you already have things like tial wastegate, boost gauge, boost controller, wideband system, forge bypass, strong transaxle and CV joints, etc. Otherwise, add those in too. My original tranny blew up promptly after turning the boost up, and I'm not alone.
That list also excludes labor if you are paying to have it done. If you decide to "save money" doing it yourself, be prepared to buy lots of tools and supplies to the extent you don't already have them, such as a good ring compressor, torque wrench, engine hoist, rod bolt stretch gauge, dial indicators, belt tensioner, micrometers, oprv alignment tool, drifts for b/s bearings, clutch alignment tools, port-matching bits, cc'ing kit, kimwipes, brakeclean, gun cleaners, oilstones, assembly lube, etc.
That also assumes you don't want to replate or paint anything, or do any "while you're in there things" like I and most people end up doing.
Are you willing to spend that money and use old ref, temp, knock sensors? If not, add those in too.
Are you going to trust a 20 year old OPRV with all that hardware at stake? No? Then add another few hundred. And, wouldn't it be nice to have a new oil pump while you're at it?
That also assumes that nothing gets fouled up during assemby with no need to buy replacements. Every seal slides right in, nothing needs to be disassembled, etc. Add a buffer for that too.
That also excludes additional performance parts needed to get you to an honest 500 to the wheels -- bigger TB/Intake, better headers, bigger intercooler, better ignition, etc.
It is worth it however. I'd do it again without hesistation!!
Last edited by Tom M'Guinn; 02-21-2009 at 03:42 PM.
02-21-2009, 03:46 PM
#84
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02-21-2009, 03:50 PM
#85
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Here's a real world, actual experience, report for you... Starting with a typical 951, here is a list of about $20k worth of items for a 3L.
Block with 88mm crank $2,000
Block/crank machining/polishing $500
Carrillo Rods $1000
Mahle Pistons $1300
2.7 Head $1200
Head/valve rebuild $700
951 exhaust valves $100
Swain coat exhaust ports $150
Jet coat headers/exhaust $200
3” exhaust turbo to tip: $1500
VR 5 $4400
big injectors $400
FPR $50
044 Pump with adapter $275
Clutch Package $1500
Cam/lifters (optional) $1100
Head gasket set w/widefire $175
Lower gasket set $175
Raceware (odd size) studs $350
Misc. Fasteners $150 (main nuts, locknuts, etc.)
Main bearings (std) $200
Rod bearings $80
Balance shaft bearings $50
Special loctites, sealants $150
Cap, rotor, plugs, wires $250
Coolant, oil, p/s fluid, filter $50
Belts (tbelt, b/s, p/s, a/c), rollers, wpump $450
Thermostats $75
H2O hoses, vacuum lines, couplers, clamps $350
Add’l seals/gaskets $200
Motor Mounts $300
Fuel lines $125
That list assumes you already have things like tial wastegate, boost gauge, boost controller, wideband system, forge bypass, strong transaxle and CV joints, etc. Otherwise, add those in too. My original tranny blew up promptly after turning the boost up, and I'm not alone.
That list also excludes labor if you are paying to have it done. If you decide to "save money" doing it yourself, be prepared to buy lots of tools and supplies to the extent you don't already have them, such as a good ring compressor, torque wrench, engine hoist, rod bolt stretch gauge, dial indicators, belt tensioner, micrometers, oprv alignment tool, drifts for b/s bearings, clutch alignment tools, port-matching bits, cc'ing kit, kimwipes, brakeclean, gun cleaners, oilstones, assembly lube, etc.
That also assumes you don't want to replate or paint anything, or do any "while you're in there things" like I and most people end up doing.
Are you willing to spend that money and use old ref, temp, knock sensors? If not, add those in too.
Are you going to trust a 20 year old OPRV with all that hardware at stake? No? Then add another few hundred. And, wouldn't it be nice to have a new oil pump while you're at it?
That also assumes that nothing gets fouled up during assemby with no need to buy replacements. Every seal slides right in, nothing needs to be disassembled, etc. Add a buffer for that too.
That also excludes additional performance parts needed to get you to an honest 500 to the wheels -- bigger TB/Intake, better headers, bigger intercooler, better ignition, etc.
It is worth it however. I'd do it again without hesistation!!
Starting with a typical 951, here is a list of about $20k worth of items for a 3L.Block with 88mm crank $2,000
Block/crank machining/polishing $500
Carrillo Rods $1000
Mahle Pistons $1300
2.7 Head $1200
Head/valve rebuild $700
951 exhaust valves $100
Swain coat exhaust ports $150
Jet coat headers/exhaust $200
3” exhaust turbo to tip: $1500
VR 5 $4400
big injectors $400
FPR $50
044 Pump with adapter $275
Clutch Package $1500
Cam/lifters (optional) $1100
Head gasket set w/widefire $175
Lower gasket set $175
Raceware (odd size) studs $350
Misc. Fasteners $150 (main nuts, locknuts, etc.)
Main bearings (std) $200
Rod bearings $80
Balance shaft bearings $50
Special loctites, sealants $150
Cap, rotor, plugs, wires $250
Coolant, oil, p/s fluid, filter $50
Belts (tbelt, b/s, p/s, a/c), rollers, wpump $450
Thermostats $75
H2O hoses, vacuum lines, couplers, clamps $350
Add’l seals/gaskets $200
Motor Mounts $300
Fuel lines $125
That list assumes you already have things like tial wastegate, boost gauge, boost controller, wideband system, forge bypass, strong transaxle and CV joints, etc. Otherwise, add those in too. My original tranny blew up promptly after turning the boost up, and I'm not alone.
That list also excludes labor if you are paying to have it done. If you decide to "save money" doing it yourself, be prepared to buy lots of tools and supplies to the extent you don't already have them, such as a good ring compressor, torque wrench, engine hoist, rod bolt stretch gauge, dial indicators, belt tensioner, micrometers, oprv alignment tool, drifts for b/s bearings, clutch alignment tools, port-matching bits, cc'ing kit, kimwipes, brakeclean, gun cleaners, oilstones, assembly lube, etc.
That also assumes you don't want to replate or paint anything, or do any "while you're in there things" like I and most people end up doing.
Are you willing to spend that money and use old ref, temp, knock sensors? If not, add those in too.
Are you going to trust a 20 year old OPRV with all that hardware at stake? No? Then add another few hundred. And, wouldn't it be nice to have a new oil pump while you're at it?
That also assumes that nothing gets fouled up during assemby with no need to buy replacements. Every seal slides right in, nothing needs to be disassembled, etc. Add a buffer for that too.
That also excludes additional performance parts needed to get you to an honest 500 to the wheels -- bigger TB/Intake, better headers, bigger intercooler, better ignition, etc.
It is worth it however. I'd do it again without hesistation!!
i'd think you have to include the intake and intercooler type items as well...
this is the kind of info i was looking for
02-21-2009, 03:54 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
VR 5 was shorthand for the Vitesse Racing Stage 5 kit, which includes the MAF, turbo and engine management. All numbers are approximate.
02-21-2009, 04:08 PM
#88
The Impaler
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02-21-2009, 04:17 PM
#89
Rennlist Member
Only if we change the discussion from expansion rates to heat transfer! Semantics aside I think we agree on some basic stuff.
BTW – interesting point here, the aluminum chevy block is....sleeved!
Back to the original post...looking back on whats been posted I think that I like some of the thoughts of the poster – he is your basic hot rodder looking to make something interesting. Is it a purest Porsche...no, will it be a track car....no, can he pull up to the local burger joint in a ride he built himself, pop he hood and get some comments...yes.
So, just for project sake I would say go for the V8, doesn’t matter if its iron or alum, just have fun with the project.
BTW – interesting point here, the aluminum chevy block is....sleeved!
Back to the original post...looking back on whats been posted I think that I like some of the thoughts of the poster – he is your basic hot rodder looking to make something interesting. Is it a purest Porsche...no, will it be a track car....no, can he pull up to the local burger joint in a ride he built himself, pop he hood and get some comments...yes.
So, just for project sake I would say go for the V8, doesn’t matter if its iron or alum, just have fun with the project.
If your looking for a low cost hot rod, with the beauty of a porsche, def v8 would be ideal. Like others have stated tho, 500hp power is great, but quite a bit for our cars. Really when you consider power to weight, 500hp in our cars compared to 500hp in a big heavy muscle car is a big difference. The big advantage of the v8's reliability, and low cost right? If those are your two biggest priorities the v8 is the option. I would argue our engines are pretty reliable tho, but overall cost of ownership would be higher im sure. Good luck with your project what ever you do tho. Definitely keep us updated.
02-21-2009, 04:22 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
Lets be realistic. LOL.