Winter project under way. Updated 01/07
07-01-2012, 11:47 PM
#197
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Missed this thread somehow...Cool project and really like the 968 front end. What's your goal as far as weight is concerned after all said and done?
07-02-2012, 12:57 AM
#198
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ROFL. Well said. Thank you. Correct! I spent a ridiculous amount of time on it. I will take pics of the car all low as hell and how the wheels NO LONGER push forward while that low. They actually roll up to the top instead and don't rub the usual 10-oclock position on the rear fender well. - Roll center correction mixed with the rotational point moved 1/2" rearward keeps the wheels in the center position even with more than usual toe in. Although with all the rod ends and spherical joints and solid mounts, nothing more than just a little toe in is needed now since the geometry will not move out of place anymore. I highly suggest this set up for anyone tracking their car or lowering it 1.25" or more.
I weighed everything. Including replacement springs and everything. I ended up losing a lot more than I ever hoped. 30lbs.. I'm not kidding. This includes anything you will have to replace to make the new set up complete. I am fully elated and now have hopes to have a lighter car than originally planned.. which is in the next answer...
Yeah.. Interesting you ask. I am making an extra one. All pieces and parts are programmed into my CNC plasma cutter and all is laid out in plans and specs. I really think I improved the design quite a bit over the "Other" piece,as far as budget and intelligent simplicity. Granted, this is just based off of pictures of the other piece I've seen. I worked my butt off to make this repeatable and very stable/Strong. It is by far my most well engineered piece on the car. The Rod end in the picture is not the one I will be using. That is a male Rod end, and I will be using a female Rod end that allows the backing plate to remain its size and strength. The "other" I've seen (side plates) have a "cut" in them for the male threaded and jam nuts to rotate. The female one moves that jam nut further out and out of the way. I will also have a turnbuckle bolt that is much better / nicer to use when adjusting the set up Toe in. The Spring plate will remain almost exactly the same as stock, but a Threaded chromoly tube will be in the center. No huge thick blingy aluminum plate is needed. I don't think the weight will be any different at all from the aluminum plate either, but that's just a guess.
As simple as it looks, it takes about 3 days to make. All the spacers and what not take the most time to get exactly right. all chromoly spacers. I used my dial calipers and made sure they were all within one thousands of each other. the same goes for everything before and during welding. That's what takes so much time. The measuring and careful welding. The other includes the solid mounts. I guess that's about $300 in other stuff you can buy, but subtracting that from the other systems price is still a little less than double what I would charge. Now before I commit to that statement. What does that Kolken unit cost? I think a used set up went for something like $1000-$1200!?
But before I show more pics, Im waiting on a few more fittings to show up so I can do the final Pro version. Then I will Powder Coat and take pics. It will be a nice piece. I'm very proud of this one. I currently have the preliminary piece on my car and I am extremely happy. Mine has a small dip in the middle to clear my 1.5" lower torque tube. If it were for any other 951 it would be straight without the dip.
Thank YOu! My original Goal for weight was to maintain my 2300lb "before" weight. The cage I added is about 150lbs. So I was doing all this work to offset the cage. To lose another 150lbs from a car that already had everything removed is extremely difficult. But at this point, I'm starting to have hopes of a weight somewhere near 2250lbs. The glass doors and the torsion bar delete have lost me 80lbs! Torque tube is another 10. Lexan windshield is about 15. etc. etc. etc. So now I'm getting anxious to find out myself. I should be done with the last details of the tub within a week or two. The it gets painted. - add another week or two.. Then.. I put her all together. add to all that another month. These are my hopes anyway.
Yeah.. Interesting you ask. I am making an extra one. All pieces and parts are programmed into my CNC plasma cutter and all is laid out in plans and specs. I really think I improved the design quite a bit over the "Other" piece,as far as budget and intelligent simplicity. Granted, this is just based off of pictures of the other piece I've seen. I worked my butt off to make this repeatable and very stable/Strong. It is by far my most well engineered piece on the car. The Rod end in the picture is not the one I will be using. That is a male Rod end, and I will be using a female Rod end that allows the backing plate to remain its size and strength. The "other" I've seen (side plates) have a "cut" in them for the male threaded and jam nuts to rotate. The female one moves that jam nut further out and out of the way. I will also have a turnbuckle bolt that is much better / nicer to use when adjusting the set up Toe in. The Spring plate will remain almost exactly the same as stock, but a Threaded chromoly tube will be in the center. No huge thick blingy aluminum plate is needed. I don't think the weight will be any different at all from the aluminum plate either, but that's just a guess.
As simple as it looks, it takes about 3 days to make. All the spacers and what not take the most time to get exactly right. all chromoly spacers. I used my dial calipers and made sure they were all within one thousands of each other. the same goes for everything before and during welding. That's what takes so much time. The measuring and careful welding. The other includes the solid mounts. I guess that's about $300 in other stuff you can buy, but subtracting that from the other systems price is still a little less than double what I would charge. Now before I commit to that statement. What does that Kolken unit cost? I think a used set up went for something like $1000-$1200!?
But before I show more pics, Im waiting on a few more fittings to show up so I can do the final Pro version. Then I will Powder Coat and take pics. It will be a nice piece. I'm very proud of this one. I currently have the preliminary piece on my car and I am extremely happy. Mine has a small dip in the middle to clear my 1.5" lower torque tube. If it were for any other 951 it would be straight without the dip.
Thank YOu! My original Goal for weight was to maintain my 2300lb "before" weight. The cage I added is about 150lbs. So I was doing all this work to offset the cage. To lose another 150lbs from a car that already had everything removed is extremely difficult. But at this point, I'm starting to have hopes of a weight somewhere near 2250lbs. The glass doors and the torsion bar delete have lost me 80lbs! Torque tube is another 10. Lexan windshield is about 15. etc. etc. etc. So now I'm getting anxious to find out myself. I should be done with the last details of the tub within a week or two. The it gets painted. - add another week or two.. Then.. I put her all together. add to all that another month. These are my hopes anyway.
Last edited by 95ONE; 07-03-2012 at 03:26 AM.
07-02-2012, 12:57 AM
#199
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+1 on the weight savings? Looks like a pretty solid bit of metal. How much does the stock one weigh (without Tbars)?
Whoops, you just got in before me Bruce. Thanks.
Whoops, you just got in before me Bruce. Thanks.
07-02-2012, 02:57 AM
#200
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Regardless, I'm happy to see that our paint and decal editor is being put to good use!!
Last edited by Crackership; 07-02-2012 at 06:39 AM.
07-02-2012, 02:04 PM
#201
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That decal editor wasn't easy, but it was a fantastic tool to be able to do such a thing.
07-02-2012, 11:44 PM
#203
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Here are some pics of the car lowered very far and there isn't any massive forward push of the rear wheel. I will take some more pics of the rear T-bar delete sub frame when I get the nice rod end and turnbuckle in.
What you cant see is when I push the wheel further up, it actually goes more in an UP direction than Forward direction even this far up in the wheel well. The last pic is an example of a wheel that far tucked under with a stock subframe mount.
What you cant see is when I push the wheel further up, it actually goes more in an UP direction than Forward direction even this far up in the wheel well. The last pic is an example of a wheel that far tucked under with a stock subframe mount.
Last edited by 95ONE; 07-03-2012 at 02:11 AM.
07-03-2012, 01:11 AM
#204
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nice work!
since my dad got his workshop back, all the machines are now there. so tempting to do all this to my car for the sake of it! LOL
well not all of it just some of it
since my dad got his workshop back, all the machines are now there. so tempting to do all this to my car for the sake of it! LOL
well not all of it just some of it
07-03-2012, 01:25 AM
#205
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I will be shipping one to Patrick in the next week or two. Go look at his and copy it if you like. You might want to ask him first though. But you certainly have my blessing. The measuring was ridiculously difficult to get right and verify. Probably did it 20xs, then welded, then rechecked. then installed, then rechecked again. Making sure the welds are good enough to risk your life, is one thing.. Others.. that's another. Of course you have to make sure you don't doddle with the welds so that the heat doesn't make the metal brittle AROUND the welds. That's what gives even if you get good penetration. It's actually the concern with getting penetration that usually overheats the material. (Edited with better details for the serious detailed people) Don't forget to use Stainless (308) rod when welding chromoly to mild steel, etc. etc. (depending on scenario, regular mild steel rod works great also) Mild steel for a cage. Chromoly filler for Chromoly to chromoly welding with pre heating and cool down period, but Of course you know all this, but others might not know how important all the small details are.The Kolken unit is certainly no secret, and all I've ever seen of one is in tiny pictures. In the end, I can't imagine mine and theirs being much different. Clearly they HAVE to be the same width. The swing arm mounts will HAVE to be the same distance from the center line. The swing arm side HAS to be exactly 3/8" from the aluminum mount. In order to fit the Shouldered socket head allen bolt that holds the rod end can only go so high and forward before it butts up against the larger diameter "hole" in the aluminum mount. etc etc. So yes, they are extremely close. I do, of course, like my style rod end and turnbuckle adjustment more than what I see in the kolken pics. I also like using steel flexplates with chromoly rod ends better than that crazy purple aluminum thing.
Last edited by 95ONE; 07-13-2012 at 08:06 PM.
07-03-2012, 02:15 AM
#206
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Cool.. I will be shipping one to Patrick in the next week or two. Go look at his and copy it if you like. You might want to ask him first though. But you certainly have my blessing. The measuring was ridiculously difficult to get right and verify. Probably did it 20xs, then welded, then rechecked. then installed, then rechecked again. Making sure the welds are good enough to risk your life, is one thing.. Others.. that's another. Of course you have to make sure you don't doddle with the welds so that the heat doesn't make the metal brittle AROUND the welds. That's what gives even if you get good penetration. It's actually the concern with getting penetration that usually overheats the material. Don't forget to use Stainless rod when welding chromoly to mild steel, etc. etc. Of course you know all this, but others might not how important all the small details are.
The Kolken unit is certainly no secret, and all I've ever seen of one is in tiny pictures. In the end, I can't imagine mine and theirs being much different. Clearly they HAVE to be the same width. The swing arm mounts will HAVE to be the same distance from the center line. The swing arm side HAS to be exactly 3/8" from the aluminum mount. In order to fit the Shouldered socket head allen bolt that holds the rod end can only go so high and forward before it butts up against the larger diameter "hole" in the aluminum mount. etc etc. So yes, they are extremely close. I do, of course, like my style rod end and turnbuckle adjustment more than what I see in the kolken pics. I also like using steel flexplates with chromoly rod ends better than that crazy purple aluminum thing.
I will be shipping one to Patrick in the next week or two. Go look at his and copy it if you like. You might want to ask him first though. But you certainly have my blessing. The measuring was ridiculously difficult to get right and verify. Probably did it 20xs, then welded, then rechecked. then installed, then rechecked again. Making sure the welds are good enough to risk your life, is one thing.. Others.. that's another. Of course you have to make sure you don't doddle with the welds so that the heat doesn't make the metal brittle AROUND the welds. That's what gives even if you get good penetration. It's actually the concern with getting penetration that usually overheats the material. Don't forget to use Stainless rod when welding chromoly to mild steel, etc. etc. Of course you know all this, but others might not how important all the small details are.The Kolken unit is certainly no secret, and all I've ever seen of one is in tiny pictures. In the end, I can't imagine mine and theirs being much different. Clearly they HAVE to be the same width. The swing arm mounts will HAVE to be the same distance from the center line. The swing arm side HAS to be exactly 3/8" from the aluminum mount. In order to fit the Shouldered socket head allen bolt that holds the rod end can only go so high and forward before it butts up against the larger diameter "hole" in the aluminum mount. etc etc. So yes, they are extremely close. I do, of course, like my style rod end and turnbuckle adjustment more than what I see in the kolken pics. I also like using steel flexplates with chromoly rod ends better than that crazy purple aluminum thing.
I'm sure Patrick wont mind but he's a 10 hour drive away so.. yeah..
Thanks for the info though, appreciate it! always do.
I want to keep mine more street then track, but more of a race feel with the smoothness.. and modern, even custom suspension.
i've got plans for a 3L 16v gtx3582R that should handle over 600rwhp and respray my car the same white VW use on their Golf R (similar paint scheme also)
But we'll see.
07-03-2012, 10:30 AM
#208
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just kidding. glad to hear
07-03-2012, 11:17 AM
#210
Three Wheelin'
If you need any Kokeln rear suspension photos let me know. I am running one that I purchased new from Dwayne. I also have the Kokeln sway bars, trans mount and dual master set up.
Dual master is for sale.
Dual master is for sale.