Are 944 Turbos at a Disadvantage in PCA Club Racing?
11-25-2007, 08:51 PM
#122
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
they did not dominate gt3 , because the numbers are small.
This has been my and a few others argument/point all along. So why the rule change?
they did not dominate gt3 , because the numbers are small.
This has been my and a few others argument/point all along. So why the rule change?
11-25-2007, 08:52 PM
#123
Drifting
Classed as a prototype??? Holy **** what did I miss...........really? I was going to wait till tommorrow to worry about this but now I have to go to the PCA site and see what they have done.
If that is the case then so be it. The 3L is ready to assemble with the exception of the crank.
If that is the case then so be it. The 3L is ready to assemble with the exception of the crank.
11-25-2007, 08:58 PM
#124
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clarification
yeah they clarified the stock tub rule so you would need to put back in the stock firewall and floor pan for starters but i doubt you would want to do that because then you would have to move your engine forward and relocate the turbo seams like it would be a lot easier to just go out and dominate GTP
11-25-2007, 09:29 PM
#126
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Neither are going to happen. The only 2.5 engine that I know of that made 600whp is ST's and that thing will not make it a season on the race track. Not to mention that it will get killed in the corners. This is not a knock on the engine but more of a reality check. Peak numbers don't mean anything. AVERAGE numbers are what you want. If you have a motor that makes 470whp for 3-4k rpms and has a curve that looks like a table top vs. one that makes 600whp for 1.5k rpm and looks like a triangle in the same chassis the "lesser" powered setup will crush the "power" motor all day everyday.
I did a 3.6 with RSR intake, Motec and modern cams that made 380 on the engine dyno. Could it have made more? Sure on race fuel and timing changes. Could it make 400whp? No IMO. Not even close.
I did a 3.6 with RSR intake, Motec and modern cams that made 380 on the engine dyno. Could it have made more? Sure on race fuel and timing changes. Could it make 400whp? No IMO. Not even close.
It sounds to me like you are validating that a 3.4 liter, normally aspirated, air cooled, 2 valve 911 engine's maximum output is 374 bhp, if anyone can get there with one. And, if anyone did reach 374 bhp, I wonder how long it would last?? And, what does 374 bhp translate into for rear wheel hp? Lets assume 340 rwhp for now.
Whereas, it sounds like 470 rwhp out of a highly developed 2.5 liter 944 turbo would be a reliable road race engine. Of course, you could turn up the boost for short durations here and there when needed.
Let's run some numbers for the old GT3 class: Build a light weight 2.6 liter 944 turbo weighing 2,150 pounds and producing 470 rwhp (weight to HP = 4.6). Or, build a normally aspirated 3.4 liter 911 weighing 2,000 pounds and producing 340 rwhp (weight to HP = 5.9). The 944 turbo is the clear winner even though it is 150 pounds heavier!! Chris, this just validates what you wrote.
I do not disagree that the 951 had an advantage in GT3. Remeber the thread I started earlier this year about us kicking the fields *** at Road Atlanta? We were 14 seconds ahead of the field in the sprint race before we got black flagged at the end for passing under a corner yellow or some nonsense like that.
The problem that I have is how they chose to "correct" this. We are in the process of building a 2.6 for GT3 but that may now change. We considered building a 3.0 and running GT1 for fun. That may now be a reality. I guess we will discuss it tommorrow when I come back off of vacation.
And, I hope that if your cars do get placed into GTP that the GTP class does become a viable and long running class. I think there are some extremely nice race cars out there that might not meet all of the GT class rules but still should have a class to run. The GTP class really shows what these cars can do with some additional well engineered mods that are unfortunately beyond what the GT rules allow.
Jeff
11-25-2007, 09:45 PM
#127
Drifting
Thanks Jeff.
We have a new car that is supposed to debut in 2008. We have been given the "green light" already but now I am a little concerned that PCA may change their mind.
We have a new car that is supposed to debut in 2008. We have been given the "green light" already but now I am a little concerned that PCA may change their mind.
11-25-2007, 09:50 PM
#128
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Jeff
11-25-2007, 09:57 PM
#129
Drifting
I have known Donna Amico for almost 10 years now and the guy that owns the shop has known her for almost double that. I will give her a call and talk to her about it but I cannot promise anything. I am not sure how much influence she has over delaying the rule change.
Even though it would be appropriate.
Even though it would be appropriate.
11-25-2007, 10:01 PM
#130
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Chris, if you (or anyone else on Rennlist) could make this happen, that would be fantastic. And, it seems to me to be a totally reasonable request.
Jeff
Jeff
11-25-2007, 10:11 PM
#132
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So no-one has the records of the last 5 or so years? Can I look this up then?
11-25-2007, 10:20 PM
#133
Formula One Spin Doctor
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11-25-2007, 10:33 PM
#135
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Records of what? PCA race results?
Those are here:
http://www.pca.org/clubrace/2007_results/index.htm
Those are here:
http://www.pca.org/clubrace/2007_results/index.htm