By the way, I support your decision to not disclose vic's specs, just as I support John's decision to do the same.

Regards,

 

Fair enough. Obviously I'm sure we all believe the performance will exceed the restrictive stock turbos. I'm thinking that your friends results will be the most interesting of the two - especially if it's done with the stock DME and bolt ons.

 

when i was going through my turbo options, pauer did give me full disclosure of specs. i just don't feel i need to post them here is all, because what i've posted is already way more information than what's available from any other vendor minus lindsey.

when you're ready to buy, give pauer a call and you'll see he'll tell you everything.

 

vic will disclose full specs when you're ready to buy. john will not. that's the difference i ran into.

also, vic will custom-match a turbo for your goals. want a 50trim with a #6, 8, or 10 hotside, vic will do it for $1500. want a 60trim? he'll do that too. john has a mystery 'stage2' with no alternate configurations for $2200.

big difference there also.

 

I decided to go with the piggyback solution. John's single tune solution is (as advertised) a good way to get solid results (I'd venture 96-98% out of it), but if you want to turn the boost up (18psi +) for max results, you need to be spot on, and for that, fine tuning is necessary.

I don't have a "before" dyno, there was no point to it. It was a stock K26/6 turbo with a custom MAF/custom chips. My current set-up is a Vitesse Stage II set-up, complete with MAF/turbo/chips and a 3.0 bar fpr. I also have a Lindsey dual port wastegate, 3'exhaust and the black **** manual boost controller. Ask around, the car is a solid performer.

Again, I applaud your approach and am not locked into a "there's only one way to achieve power" mindset. I choice Vitesse for a number of reasons, cost wasn't one of them. I'm not objective in this, as I consider John to be a friend of mine, but I also chose the "easy way", in that I knew what results I would get by chosing Vitesse. You took a lesser known path and are hopefully just as pleased.

Regards,

 

And even if Vic will disclose his specs to you, I hope you won't disclose them to the public. Its not fair to Vic, if he did the work, he should be entitled to the benefits of the work, just as John is.

Regards,

 

i'm curious, what exactly is the stage-2 ? what size is the hotside and coldside? do you know what you have? maybe it's just me, but i wouldn't be able to sleep at night not knowing exactly what i had on my car.

 

nevertheless, i've disclosed more info than what's available anywhere else;
50trim
larger than #8 hotside
dual ball bearing center

does anyone know what's in a vitesses stage2 ?

 

Tell you what, I'll post a dyno chart, if that doesn't convince you its the real deal, then I can't help you and I don't really care. Fair enough?

Oh, and I can sleep plenty well at night, thank you.

Regards,

 

I'm especially interested in seeing a MAP system that works well enough to depend on it daily. It's really good to see this discussion is staying civil and also great to see people doing something a bit outside of the box and standard package concept. Having another option or route for upgrading the turbo is always a positive thing for the entire community.

 

Unless you have a stand alone MAP system, I really think you will be better off with a MAF. Search is your friend on this issue. Piggyback MAP systems (and I have first hand experience with one) just don't play well with Motronics.

I agree with the idea of having alternatives for the 951 community. There aren't many vendors that support this market, due to the lack of folks that will commit the $'s to it, regardless of the bench racing that takes place here.

Regards,

Regards,

 

Sorry if I missed it, but did you have all the mod's on while you still had the KKK? If that's the case then isn't it a direct comparison between the turbos?
Also the problems that were attributed to the Garrett bb's were often because they weren't installed correctly with oil restrictors.

 

Those were my thoughts also about MAP. My current setup (silver car) is the Guru Stage 2 MAP with Link and programmer chipped for the old 26/6. I've had issues in the past with cold start and rich running just under boost onset. I figure I'm going to have to bite the bullet and probably go with an MAF as a standalopne is outside my budget. I'm just not sure what vendor would be willing to burn a MAF chip for an unknown Garrett DBB unit. I suppose Russell and Maxtronics will be my first choice although Lindsey's MAf w/ SMT looks pretty good also.

And yes, the 951 crowd is generally cheap. There are those that wantonly throw money at the car for the 1st six months of ownership and get disillusioned when they fry it. I'm the opposite, I've been cautious for 3 years now and feel I've done some homework and spent my money well.

 

You've been on Rennlist long enough, I am pretty convinced you are committed (as is Nize).

The problem with MAP is that it responds to quickly for the Motronics units. MAF sends a compatible signal, MAP doesn't. The best you can do with MAP is try to fool the DME, MAF talks the same language.

The real glory with a 951 is going to be found in a standalone system, I'm convinced of that. Still, with a Kevin Gross built tranny (complete with an S2 r&p) and Johns turbo equipment, there aren't a lot of cars that will hang with me.

Regards,

 

Nope, no crazy build stuff. Something bolt-on and simple for 320-350whp is all I'd really want. Somewhere around 16psi but no more than 18psi. It looks like a good possibility I'll end up selling the car to a friend of mine afterwards anyways. Honestly, as much trouble and expense as it seems has to go into building these motor to do the type of stuff I'd really like to do, I personally think my efforts and money would be more wisely spent on a different type of car. Spending $30-40k in upgrades on a $5k car, just so I can run some high boost race gas runs about 3-4 times a year isn't my idea of fun.

Nize, I like turbos that pull hard to redline with no significant drop in power or boost. Generally, something that's going to make full boost at 3000rpm will be tapering off significantly by 6000+rpm. Honestly, I hate the way the stock turbo feels, spooling at 2k or just below with full boost at ~2.6-2.7k rpm like my car used to do with an EBC. It just feels lame having all this instant boost response and no real significant pull above 5k rpm. It's for this reason I generally prefer larger hotsides than most other people do (I'm a .82 T3 guy, most here seem to be of the .63a/r persuasion ) I'd rather wait a bit longer, have the turbo hit harder and keep pulling higher in the rpm. I don't like lag (I don't think anyone does), just a higher boost threshold. I'm all about the rollercoaster ride. Really responsive, low-rpm turbo setups feel too much like an n/a motor to me. Hey, I'm not lookin' to win any races here! j/k