Originally Posted by blown 944

out of curiosity what size injector is being used for the 928 at 32 psi and what fuel?

forget the drama.

Originally Posted by BrendanC

Okay, forget autronic. Its priced too high for what it does now. My statements were more about the Link/Vipec. It seems to be working well, better than ecus above its price point. I don't want to buy, try and find easy support for, or have a motec. The whole issue with motec just doesn't ring true of me.

I am sure it works great. But its ubiquitous - "MOTEC" everyone says "motec" because they were told so by others. Thats fine. Some even have great personal experiences.

What I find ridiculous is that people will disregard OTHER ecus simply because motec is supposed to be the best. Fine - spend 6k and get the best. But to me and many others, it seems like you could spend 1500 and get very good. 80/20 rule. 80% of the work for 20% of the price/effort/thinking, and to get the last 20% takes 80% of the price/effort/thinking.

I am not running the 24 hours of lemans. I just want to control some VERY large injectors using ethanol and boost to get as close as I can to "ludicrous speed" if you will, while still idling properly, a great cruise ability, and some fun stuff like traction control, launch, flat shift.

Now I KNOW for a fact that autronic is not as bad as you and some others are making it out to be. I will not argue as there is no point. Autronic on a 5L 32V 928 is getting close to 900 crank hp, on pump gas and 32psi from a supercharger. Each cylinder has been trimmed and mapped with separate 02 sensors (yes - 8 of them) - and the car runs and drives better than stock, but is a banshy when he puts the foot in it. The software has more options that most users will ever even use let alone fully understand.

But I will not be buying motec. I will be buying Link/Vipec as I understand them now. They work well, have great injector control, and have the tuning software to match. Support from many people in my area and aboad.

Yes, Ben Strader LOVES to hype Autronic. What is wrong with that? People need to make their own decisions, no matter what advice they get. If I am "influenced" as a new tuner into doing something not in my best interests, - who's fault is that? Mine. I am responsible for my decisions and no one else is.

If I ripped out a GM map based ECU from an old 90s car and tuned my porsche motor properly with it and was happy - would you say that the ECU sucked and there were better options for me? But if it worked for me, who cares?

Now the drama here is not needed. I do agree with the discussion of features vs the *ability* to tune properly/repeatedly WITH the features. AEM is an example - BASIC tunes somehow change without the user knowing, but it has features up the wazoo. If thats user error - fine.

Again, no drama needed. Haltech - no rpm/load based mapping of individual cylinders. Same for Wolf as I undertstand. Same for AEM. Same for Tec(whatever), and same for most other ECUs. Somewhere, someone, somehow realized the logic of saying that an engine is made up of individual separately run 1cyl engines x4, x6, x8, x10, x12 or 16 for hells bells.

So each intake runner will get slightly different air. Each exhaust will have slightly different pulse waves from the angles and exits. Would it not be logical to *be able* to have a map for each cylinder? On the 928 intake, some runners were 15% lean at the same rpm and load that others were 10% rich. At 32psi that seems pretty damn important to me.

And when I want to run some methanol with my ethanol - which ECU will allow me to put another dimension on the fuel table so I can properly utilize the methanol when its on? Many. But what if the methanol does not get evenly to each cylinder?

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

secondly , most of the features you rave about is way over you or most of the individuals you know heads. they will not have the facilities nor the expertise to properly adjust such features , they will be ignorant enuff to try and do so on an inertia wheel dyno , it will take a very experienced "tooner" to do so on a dyno like that ... adjusting for Knock count on a dyno jet is , well " interesting " at best and tells the level of Ignorance pervasive in this Bidniz.

again an experienced operator can do so , from prior Knowledge , not just what is being presented to him @ the dyno ..

Finally make sure the features and the ecu you are looking at actually work in realtime , many don't and many end users are not experienced enuff to tell the difference , apart from what it cost their wallets in downtime .

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

Well if you have a dyno setup that includes 4 individual egt's and lam sensrs then go for it , even so having the experience and knowledge to do so helps a lot and not all ecu's perform this function well enuff, if you have one of the cat 1 ecu's it will end in tears ...

Also for reference when i say " you " it's in the abstract and not you personally , but for all that is reading and who it pertains to , of course if you are in the know it does not apply...

Originally Posted by Kool

Maybe the question should be what Stand Alone EMS systems really should be avoided for our cars? We all know the favorites.

I wonder if we can answer this question with out any sarcasm?

Dave is there an exhaust headed my way yet?

Originally Posted by RolexNJ

The thread has gone way off course and is now just getting back on, please don't re-direct it down that same path. Let it go.

Originally Posted by 333pg333

Nice to see this get back on track. It was me who resurrected the thread afterall. Thanks Brendon and others.

Just to make things totally clear:
I have no affiliation with any of these software products. I work in a totally different field. I am on these forums as an enthusiast, that's all. When I made my passing remark about those Aussie/Kiwi products being good and that it was interesting how certain countries seem to specialise in certain products, you called me out on that. So my response was a non aggressive questioning of your experiences and qualifications to make your statements. I wasn't trying to escalate this into a pie chucking contest. You do seem like you know something about the automotive industry and I believe should add value to these threads, but if that's the case a simple clarification of your position in the auto industry would be appreciated so the rest of us know if you're just shooting from the hip or offer true experience. Some guys base their decisions on what they read in these forums after all. However you do seem to want to keep your identity to yourself which of course is your prerogative, but it may detract from some of your outright statements that you would like us to believe is absolute truth.

Back to the program...

Originally Posted by BrendanC

8, but I get your point. EGTs are a bit slow from what I can tell. Putting the LC-1 a few inches away from the port in a tube so it doesn't burn was the way Todd did it. 8 LC-1s daisy chained into a LM-1. Trim each cylinder accordingly. Outcome is the difference between keeping a motor together at 667rwhp and not. Thats with spark blow out from so much methanol.

Anyway - we know about pectel, motec, and several other "high dollar" units. The newer system can match or exceed those in features AND usability and repeatability.

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

What newer systems exceed Pectel and Motec ?

EGT's are too slow ... Hmmmmm interesting ..........

What type of engine are you talking about for 667 WHP on Meth ?

Depending on the engine Type that amt is achievable with Pump gas ..

Who is Todd ?

Lot of questions Huh! LOL...........