dyno @ 21 psi
#46
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Originally Posted by Duke
Well, not true. The WOT tables are still 2d in the Motronic. While you can scale the fuelling correct, the ignition will stay the same.
Ignition tuning is much more delicate and harder to tune than fuelling. IMHO much more important too. Basically, if you want maximum flexibility regardning boost levels, intake temps etc. with maximum performance and reliability Motronic doesn't cut it. But I agree that standalone aren't for everyone.
Ignition tuning is much more delicate and harder to tune than fuelling. IMHO much more important too. Basically, if you want maximum flexibility regardning boost levels, intake temps etc. with maximum performance and reliability Motronic doesn't cut it. But I agree that standalone aren't for everyone.
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One of weird things that happen yesterday was when I increased my boost to 24-25psi and added fuel my 4-6k rpm a/f ratio range was okay but I loss about 30hp instead of gaining any power. I thought for a moment there that it could be back pressure, but Special Tools is clearly convinced that it's the DME retarding the timing, I tend to agree with him.
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Originally Posted by lart951
One of weird things that happen yesterday was when I increased my boost to 24-25psi and added fuel my 4-6k rpm a/f ratio range was okay but I loss about 30hp instead of gaining any power. I thought for a moment there that it could be back pressure, but Special Tools is clearly convinced that it's the DME retarding the timing, I tend to agree with him.
What would cause that? Bad DME or was the KLR detecting knock?
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Originally Posted by por951turbo
What would cause that? Bad DME or was the KLR detecting knock?
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Originally Posted by RolexNJ
While you are on a role, why dont you list "all" the pro and cons of both system, so they class can learn today while you cruise around in that Green Bus. And thank you for answering for Todd too, even though I think he is a big boy himself.
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Well the big pro of the stock system, and it's a big pro, is the fact that it's already there. It's installed and working fine. Cold start-up, light load fuelling+ignition and ignition retard is factory tuned and is working satisfactory.
What's changed in aftermarket chips is mainly WOT fuelling and WOT timing. That is in 2d, meaning it's a simple row with rpm vs say ignition value.
This works fine in a low boost application. But when you start exceeding 18 psi the ignition values required for maximum performance without knock or too high EGT differs a lot from low boost.
That leaves 2 different choices, 1 to tune for maximum boost to be on the safe side. That is fine, but you loose performance during spool up and possibly in the first gears (when not maximum boost is achieved) as well. So overall performance and response is sacrificed a bit.
Choice 2 is to fill up the tank with higher octane when running higher boost levels but that isn't a very sophisticated approach. And with a standalone you could have a seperate tune for the race fuel to fully take advantage of it.
That's the basic stuff. Then we have the possibilities to alter fuel and timing depending on EGT, knock signal, intake temp etc with a good stand alone!
The stock system with Motronic doesn't even have a intake temp sensor after the turbo so it has no way of altering fuel/ignition with high intake temps.
And higher boost levels change the air temp enormously.
Then there's the little features such as soft cut rev-limiting etc.
As I said, not for everyone but if you have the time and knowledge to do it yourself or the money to pay a professionel to do it it offers a lot more than the stock system.
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Originally Posted by lart951
ST, said the chips (authotority) are not suitable for my application, therefore can handle higher boost levels.
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I thought we had you set to get new chips already Lart????? LOL
Get them Auth, out of there. Especially at the boost you are running.
Loosing power??? Maybe not timing being pulled out but just REALLY dumping in fuel to compensate so being super rich robs a lot of power.
I don't think that Auth chips, or any for that matter, are that aggressive in adding/pulling timing on the fly....Anyone???
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Sorry guys, I didn't mean to start some kind of war in the thread, or highjack it. The reason I asked about going for a stand alone like the Wolf 3D, is that I'm running one in my 951 at the moment.
It's a complete plug in unit, apart from one wire for the TPS on the turbo 944's. I went this way because in Australia they are quite inexpensive, and offer complete flexability in terms of tuning, as well as the ability to tune around future mods, like a bigger intercooler, more boost etc, on the dyno, in real time, without messing around with chips.
My 951 currently makes 200rwkw on 1 bar of boost, with bugger all mods, and the Wolf setup runs it perfectly sweet.
Anywho, thats just my 2c, I hope I didn't offend anyone
It's a complete plug in unit, apart from one wire for the TPS on the turbo 944's. I went this way because in Australia they are quite inexpensive, and offer complete flexability in terms of tuning, as well as the ability to tune around future mods, like a bigger intercooler, more boost etc, on the dyno, in real time, without messing around with chips.
My 951 currently makes 200rwkw on 1 bar of boost, with bugger all mods, and the Wolf setup runs it perfectly sweet.
Anywho, thats just my 2c, I hope I didn't offend anyone
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Luis,
Very nice, bet the car is fun to drive.
About authority chips, they have retard timing in them, if you had an egt gauge, you will see that it gets quiet hot.
About hally, he successfully burned LR stage 1 & 2 MAF chips for someone on renn (they are the same meter). As for Russell, he could also handle LR maf and their turbo's (check his site at the chip selection), that is if you wish to keep the current MAF and go for a chip.
Very nice, bet the car is fun to drive.
About authority chips, they have retard timing in them, if you had an egt gauge, you will see that it gets quiet hot.
About hally, he successfully burned LR stage 1 & 2 MAF chips for someone on renn (they are the same meter). As for Russell, he could also handle LR maf and their turbo's (check his site at the chip selection), that is if you wish to keep the current MAF and go for a chip.
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Originally Posted by hosrom_951
Luis,
Very nice, bet the car is fun to drive.
About authority chips, they have retard timing in them, if you had an egt gauge, you will see that it gets quiet hot.
About hally, he successfully burned LR stage 1 & 2 MAF chips for someone on renn (they are the same meter). As for Russell, he could also handle LR maf and their turbo's (check his site at the chip selection), that is if you wish to keep the current MAF and go for a chip.
Very nice, bet the car is fun to drive.
About authority chips, they have retard timing in them, if you had an egt gauge, you will see that it gets quiet hot.
About hally, he successfully burned LR stage 1 & 2 MAF chips for someone on renn (they are the same meter). As for Russell, he could also handle LR maf and their turbo's (check his site at the chip selection), that is if you wish to keep the current MAF and go for a chip.
http://www.lindseyracing.com/Merchan...SSPOWERPERFECT
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My Swiss made 418rwhp at 18 or so psi with k27 chips not to bad, I can't find the dyno chart.
Larts set up is very close to what My Swiss had expect for turbo his was a full garrett and MGE head.
Larts set up is very close to what My Swiss had expect for turbo his was a full garrett and MGE head.
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Luis, congratulations on pumping up the boost and finding more hp. However, once you get the issues with your MAF setup all worked out, you might also want to start thinking about using stiffer valve springs. As you probably already know, at high boost and high rpm the intake valves could experience valve float. If I remember correctly, the factory valve springs with 130 pounds of seat pressure are only rated for 12 psig of boost. As you run higher boost (24 or 25 psig) the valve springs will have a harder job closing the intake valves and you may run into some nasty valve float. Just a suggestion, good job and keep on happy boosting…
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Originally Posted by Trucho-951
Luis, congratulations on pumping up the boost and finding more hp. However, once you get the issues with your MAF setup all worked out, you might also want to start thinking about using stiffer valve springs. As you probably already know, at high boost and high rpm the intake valves could experience valve float. If I remember correctly, the factory valve springs with 130 pounds of seat pressure are only rated for 12 psig of boost. As you run higher boost (24 or 25 psig) the valve springs will have a harder job closing the intake valves and you may run into some nasty valve float. Just a suggestion, good job and keep on happy boosting…
At what boost are you closing in on possible valve float?
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Originally Posted by pk951
My Swiss made 418rwhp at 18 or so psi with k27 chips not to bad, I can't find the dyno chart.
Larts set up is very close to what My Swiss had expect for turbo his was a full garrett and MGE head.
Larts set up is very close to what My Swiss had expect for turbo his was a full garrett and MGE head.
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Originally Posted by toddk911
That had to have been a 2.8 or 3L ???
Click here for data on the LR Race Valve Springs. Hope that helps.