Just how difficult is it to fit a GT35 bb?
11-29-2006, 08:09 AM
#1
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Just how difficult is it to fit a GT35 bb?
This is one of the choices of turbos that I'm thinking of. Of course there are fitting issues but does anyone know just how hard it is? I know it's a basic question but if anyone knows what's involved it may help the decision. I've done a search on this and didn't quite find what I was after. I've also emailed Edman who fitted the GT 3076 to his but I await a reply.
Thanks for any pointers.
Thanks for any pointers.
11-29-2006, 09:29 AM
#2
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The center section of the GT series is much narrower and shorter than the KKK center section. You will have to figure out how to mate the turbo drain hole to the motor mount (adapter, machine mount etc..) then you have to modify the exhaust (from what I recall the X-over pipe needs to be extended some).
Once done, you have to deal with the oil supply...
It's doable!! If you go this route, I would love to see a comparison between your setup and Sean's (BTW I know the results
).
Once done, you have to deal with the oil supply...
It's doable!! If you go this route, I would love to see a comparison between your setup and Sean's (BTW I know the results
).
11-29-2006, 09:43 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
I have a 3076 as well.
The following mods will need to be made. Most of them have already been discussed.
The turbo motormount will have to be cut and then rewelded to clear the hot side.
The motor mount will have to be shaved down to remove the o'ring groove.
You will need an adapter between the center section and turbo motor mount.
The oil feed line needs to be modified to flow less oil.
The crossover will need to be modified on the flange that connects to turbo center section.
Depending on the comressor wheel size, you will need a custyom reducer to clear the alternator.
Custom reducer needed for the compressor side to the hardpipe going into the intercooler.
You will need custom AN fitted coolant lines to connect to the water jackets on the center section.
These turbo's are amazing and when right.
Don't believe everything you read and hear!
Regards.
Raj
The following mods will need to be made. Most of them have already been discussed.
The turbo motormount will have to be cut and then rewelded to clear the hot side.
The motor mount will have to be shaved down to remove the o'ring groove.
You will need an adapter between the center section and turbo motor mount.
The oil feed line needs to be modified to flow less oil.
The crossover will need to be modified on the flange that connects to turbo center section.
Depending on the comressor wheel size, you will need a custyom reducer to clear the alternator.
Custom reducer needed for the compressor side to the hardpipe going into the intercooler.
You will need custom AN fitted coolant lines to connect to the water jackets on the center section.
These turbo's are amazing and when right.
Don't believe everything you read and hear!
Regards.
Raj
11-29-2006, 04:48 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=fast951]The center section of the GT series is much narrower and shorter than the KKK center section. You will have to figure out how to mate the turbo drain hole to the motor mount (adapter, machine mount etc..) then you have to modify the exhaust (from what I recall the X-over pipe needs to be extended some).
Once done, you have to deal with the oil supply...
It's doable!! If you go this route, I would love to see a comparison between your setup and Sean's (BTW I know the results ).[/QUOTE
Hahaha, You're not the only one John. This is all still in theory and it might be a GT3076r instead.
Raj, thanks for those details and I agree with you. For some reason the 951 crowd seems to dismiss the GT turbo. I think through some misunderstandings. Anyway I'm not set just which way I'll go yet.
Patrick
Once done, you have to deal with the oil supply...
It's doable!! If you go this route, I would love to see a comparison between your setup and Sean's (BTW I know the results
).[/QUOTEHahaha, You're not the only one John. This is all still in theory and it might be a GT3076r instead.
Raj, thanks for those details and I agree with you. For some reason the 951 crowd seems to dismiss the GT turbo. I think through some misunderstandings. Anyway I'm not set just which way I'll go yet.
Patrick
11-29-2006, 09:40 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
First off, sorry with my slow response to your emails Patrick. I promise I will respond soon. 
Woohoo! I just spoke with Tim and apparently my 35r setup will be in the mail shortly. I'll update you all very soon with pics and will detail everything as far as fitment goes. I went with a T04S compressor housing, and I'm planning on sticking with the a/c so it looks like it's going to require some "massaging" with the intake coupler reducer and alternator to fit properly. Doing an a/c delete will of course eliminate this issue. One other potential issue with the T04S housing is it's a very real possibility that it won't fit under the stock intake manifold. At the point you are using a 35r, I would certainly hope you wouldn't be using the stock intake anyways, though some may prefer this route at least initially to cut costs on the conversion. We'll see shortly, and I'm also going to examine the possibility of making slight modifications to the stock intake to see if it can be made to fit using a simple machined spacer, dremel work to the manifold, or some other relatively simple do-it-yourself route. Though, I do have a custom short runner (probably too short) larger plenum design intake from Powerhaus laying around that I will probably be using. Anyways, so as to not confuse anyone, just for the record the stock intake manifold would pose a pretty big airflow restriction with turbos of this size and around the 500-600+hp levels many Gt35r's and many similar sized turbos are capable of. True, people have used them on some 951's making well over 400rwhp, however that doesn't necessarily mean they are optimal. The stock plenum is relatively small in volume for one, and the stock throttle body is way too small to be optimal for 400+rwhp levels. If I can modify the stock intake to work with my setup, I fully intend to dyno prove this statement in the future. Some of these stock parts have been pushed to some relatively high power levels compared to their size, however doing so is probably sacrificing a huge amount of power, airflow volume, and thermal efficiency(not to mention negative effects on the top-end power curve) when getting into higher 500+hp levels. Judging by what I've seen and experienced from other various non-951 motors of similar design and displacement, I would even go so far as to say that a larger plenum and larger ~60-65mm throttle body should also provide pretty worthwhile improvements in hp and throttle response (and probably a nil or minimal negative effect on torque) even down around the 350-400hp level. We'll see. Give me a little time to get my beater runnin' and I'll start pumping out dyno charts!
Second, just curious but why the 35r Patrick? You gettin' that dyno queen itch too?! I personally wouldn't recommend one unless you are planning for over 500rwhp in the future as it would be bigger than necessary for a lower power level. It could be done just fine for a lower power level, and it would make more power then a smaller turbo of course, however it wouldn't be the most optimal choice unless you were planning on something like a pump gas 3L and wanted to get more hp on pump gas then a more properly sized 400rwhp turbo.
Technically the GT series are state of the art and offer quite a few improvements over the typical k26/k27 or older Garret "T" series offerings you normally find for our cars. The GT series has been so widely proven in many other car circles and in pretty much every motorsport known to man, so there shouldn't be much doubt about their capabilities. Unfortunately though, in the Porsche world it seems that many are of the mindset that if it isn't proven on a Porsche then it hasn't been proven, which is a copout. The GT series turbos do, of course, take some work to adapt for our cars, however there are some people (Like Tim @ SFR) that make conversion pieces to either aid in installation or provide a bolt-on kit. ATP offers KKK replica exhaust housings for the GT series, though part of the benefits of the GT series will be lost going that route as the GT series exhaust housings are specially designed and offer nice improvements. To be entirely honest though, on the flipside of things many of the improvements with these GT series turbos can be a matter of semantics due to the money, time and effort involved as compared to a KKK or older T series ready-made bolt on setup from VR, SFR, LR, or any other company. While the GT series is technically superior, to many people these improvements may not be worth the added cost or effort which is completely understandable. That being said, if you want the best then you'd be hard pressed to find much else better than the GT series, though there are plenty of non-GT turbos out there that will get the job done just fine for those on more of a budget. For those that have some fabrication skills and like to design their own stuff, it actually wouldn't be too expensive to fit a GT series turbo yourself.
Woohoo! I just spoke with Tim and apparently my 35r setup will be in the mail shortly. I'll update you all very soon with pics and will detail everything as far as fitment goes. I went with a T04S compressor housing, and I'm planning on sticking with the a/c so it looks like it's going to require some "massaging" with the intake coupler reducer and alternator to fit properly. Doing an a/c delete will of course eliminate this issue. One other potential issue with the T04S housing is it's a very real possibility that it won't fit under the stock intake manifold. At the point you are using a 35r, I would certainly hope you wouldn't be using the stock intake anyways, though some may prefer this route at least initially to cut costs on the conversion. We'll see shortly, and I'm also going to examine the possibility of making slight modifications to the stock intake to see if it can be made to fit using a simple machined spacer, dremel work to the manifold, or some other relatively simple do-it-yourself route. Though, I do have a custom short runner (probably too short) larger plenum design intake from Powerhaus laying around that I will probably be using. Anyways, so as to not confuse anyone, just for the record the stock intake manifold would pose a pretty big airflow restriction with turbos of this size and around the 500-600+hp levels many Gt35r's and many similar sized turbos are capable of. True, people have used them on some 951's making well over 400rwhp, however that doesn't necessarily mean they are optimal. The stock plenum is relatively small in volume for one, and the stock throttle body is way too small to be optimal for 400+rwhp levels. If I can modify the stock intake to work with my setup, I fully intend to dyno prove this statement in the future. Some of these stock parts have been pushed to some relatively high power levels compared to their size, however doing so is probably sacrificing a huge amount of power, airflow volume, and thermal efficiency(not to mention negative effects on the top-end power curve) when getting into higher 500+hp levels. Judging by what I've seen and experienced from other various non-951 motors of similar design and displacement, I would even go so far as to say that a larger plenum and larger ~60-65mm throttle body should also provide pretty worthwhile improvements in hp and throttle response (and probably a nil or minimal negative effect on torque) even down around the 350-400hp level. We'll see. Give me a little time to get my beater runnin' and I'll start pumping out dyno charts!
Second, just curious but why the 35r Patrick? You gettin' that dyno queen itch too?!
I personally wouldn't recommend one unless you are planning for over 500rwhp in the future as it would be bigger than necessary for a lower power level. It could be done just fine for a lower power level, and it would make more power then a smaller turbo of course, however it wouldn't be the most optimal choice unless you were planning on something like a pump gas 3L and wanted to get more hp on pump gas then a more properly sized 400rwhp turbo.Technically the GT series are state of the art and offer quite a few improvements over the typical k26/k27 or older Garret "T" series offerings you normally find for our cars. The GT series has been so widely proven in many other car circles and in pretty much every motorsport known to man, so there shouldn't be much doubt about their capabilities. Unfortunately though, in the Porsche world it seems that many are of the mindset that if it isn't proven on a Porsche then it hasn't been proven, which is a copout. The GT series turbos do, of course, take some work to adapt for our cars, however there are some people (Like Tim @ SFR) that make conversion pieces to either aid in installation or provide a bolt-on kit. ATP offers KKK replica exhaust housings for the GT series, though part of the benefits of the GT series will be lost going that route as the GT series exhaust housings are specially designed and offer nice improvements. To be entirely honest though, on the flipside of things many of the improvements with these GT series turbos can be a matter of semantics due to the money, time and effort involved as compared to a KKK or older T series ready-made bolt on setup from VR, SFR, LR, or any other company. While the GT series is technically superior, to many people these improvements may not be worth the added cost or effort which is completely understandable. That being said, if you want the best then you'd be hard pressed to find much else better than the GT series, though there are plenty of non-GT turbos out there that will get the job done just fine for those on more of a budget. For those that have some fabrication skills and like to design their own stuff, it actually wouldn't be too expensive to fit a GT series turbo yourself.
11-30-2006, 04:37 AM
#6
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333pg333: Do a quick search in the archives, you will find the pictures and details on the oil drain that John is talking about.
Look under username Edman951
Look under username Edman951
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11-30-2006, 05:40 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
11-30-2006, 08:44 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Thanks guys. I didn't find those threads before as I used GT35 as the main search key. I am now probably looking at a more realistic GT3076r .82 a/r if I go a Garrett. It looks like there is a bit of work to do to get it right. Nothing that Sean can't handle though heheheheh. I actually emailed Edman a few days ago but am yet to recieve a reply. Probably out hunting Yak's in the Yukon. lol I'd love to hear how his car is going though and anyone else who has done a similar thing to theirs.
12-03-2006, 09:00 PM
#10
333pg333,
sorry i didn't get back to you. haven't checked my edman951 e-mails.
If you have some fabrication skill and like to do thing yourself, then making your own GT turbo install is cool.
But if you don't have the time or the skills then forget it.
Both GT3076R & GT35R are great, it all depends on what type of power you want. The GT3082R is also nice.
For a 3.0L you probably want the GT35R.Even a GT40R if you are looking for crazy power.
Go to http://www.smokemup.com/ and use there automath turbo calculator. to figure out what size turbo works for your plans.
My GT3076R with a .63ar work great on a 2.5L 951 with a piggyback efi system.
I get 20psi at 3100 rpm in 4th.
its a great street turbo.
I also bought a .82 a/r housing too, but i never installed it. but i plan to try it someday.
A GT35R is bigger and can make more top end power.
Some extra clearance will be required to fit under the stock intake.
My old post does cover most thing.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133034
Here is what i changed since then.
First modify the mount to accept the GT turbo, I actally switch to the ATP fitting this summer. Works great, but you still need to narrow the factory mount since the GT turbos are narrower.
ATP ADAPTOR
Here are some pictures of my new install. ( i re-did it because of a oil leak i had)
If you use this adaptor you will need to close the factory o-ring groove in the mount. also some hole drain matching is required.From the adaptor to the mounts hole.
You can re-use the factory turbo mounting bolt that go thru the mount. but you will need to drill into the bottom part of the long bolt to get it about 3/8" deper into the mount. since you have to get the bolt to extend past the adaptor.
My cars runing great, here are some video i have on streetfire.net
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...%20gt30r/0.htm
hope this helps.
sorry i didn't get back to you. haven't checked my edman951 e-mails.
If you have some fabrication skill and like to do thing yourself, then making your own GT turbo install is cool.
But if you don't have the time or the skills then forget it.
Both GT3076R & GT35R are great, it all depends on what type of power you want. The GT3082R is also nice.
For a 3.0L you probably want the GT35R.Even a GT40R if you are looking for crazy power.
Go to http://www.smokemup.com/ and use there automath turbo calculator. to figure out what size turbo works for your plans.
My GT3076R with a .63ar work great on a 2.5L 951 with a piggyback efi system.
I get 20psi at 3100 rpm in 4th.
its a great street turbo.
I also bought a .82 a/r housing too, but i never installed it. but i plan to try it someday.
A GT35R is bigger and can make more top end power.
Some extra clearance will be required to fit under the stock intake.
My old post does cover most thing.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133034
Here is what i changed since then.
First modify the mount to accept the GT turbo, I actally switch to the ATP fitting this summer. Works great, but you still need to narrow the factory mount since the GT turbos are narrower.
ATP ADAPTOR
Here are some pictures of my new install. ( i re-did it because of a oil leak i had)
If you use this adaptor you will need to close the factory o-ring groove in the mount. also some hole drain matching is required.From the adaptor to the mounts hole.
You can re-use the factory turbo mounting bolt that go thru the mount. but you will need to drill into the bottom part of the long bolt to get it about 3/8" deper into the mount. since you have to get the bolt to extend past the adaptor.
My cars runing great, here are some video i have on streetfire.net
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...%20gt30r/0.htm
hope this helps.
12-03-2006, 09:35 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Edman for this reply. Good info again and glad to hear yours is going so well.
