awesome use of a v8 in a 944 (dont hate me)
04-19-2006, 01:20 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
Whoa!
A 951 engine is a POS , what is going on here . Tony G does a V8 conversion and now everyone wants a 958
Nice work Gman , would love to here what the real world performance difference is vs the 2.5 L , as to whp , track times etc. 18 G is a lot of cash but i guess it would be compariable to some of the upper 951 mods done here. THe v8 conversion would be intoxicating to those who love or want that , for boost junkies , nothing beats that too. i don't view one as being in this situation superior to the other, as i do not believe an ls7 with the minor mods done as in T 's case would be faster than a 951 done up.
Mike Gokey does a lot of those type of v8 conversions , he is nearby , quite possible the next 951 we have in line to be done we can really see if the v8's get on with it over a prepared 951, it would make for an interesting comparision vs the mud slinging .
____________________________________________________
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A 951 engine is a POS , what is going on here . Tony G does a V8 conversion and now everyone wants a 958
Nice work Gman , would love to here what the real world performance difference is vs the 2.5 L , as to whp , track times etc. 18 G is a lot of cash but i guess it would be compariable to some of the upper 951 mods done here. THe v8 conversion would be intoxicating to those who love or want that , for boost junkies , nothing beats that too. i don't view one as being in this situation superior to the other, as i do not believe an ls7 with the minor mods done as in T 's case would be faster than a 951 done up.
Mike Gokey does a lot of those type of v8 conversions , he is nearby , quite possible the next 951 we have in line to be done we can really see if the v8's get on with it over a prepared 951, it would make for an interesting comparision vs the mud slinging .
____________________________________________________
www.tpgproducts.com
OMG, I am essentially dealing with a bunch of armchair rennlist mechanic-types who know way more about conversions than any of us at the hybrid board in spite of the fact you've never done, or more than likely, even SEEN one..
04-19-2006, 01:34 AM
#122
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Originally Posted by D944tech
OMG, I am essentially dealing with a bunch of armchair rennlist mechanic-types who know way more about conversions than any of us at the hybrid board in spite of the fact you've never done, or more than likely, even SEEN one..
Ha, HA, get back with me when your GED program is done . 
04-19-2006, 02:12 AM
#124
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Guys...
I'm even reluctant to comment on this thread, that I did not start, but proceeded to hijack unintentionally, which set off a super critical chain reaction.
The 944/968's are great cars for many reasons. I've played with these things for a long time.
I really don't like hybrids as personal, general rule. Why? Because 90% of the conversions I've personally seen (which isn't many) have been not of the quality and construction that I expect (some are far below acceptable standards in my book). Because of that, the hybrid thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.
And you should have seen this white, 944 turbo, rust bucket, done-in-a-barn-in-a-corn field-conversion that we bought off of ebay. We knew it was junk, but we wanted the conversion parts. This car was the source of entertainment for a long time... and because of that, nobody wanted to touch the then proposed V8 944 for several months. This car was not safe to operate at any speed.
Does that mean that hybrids are bad. Nope. Not at all.
What inspired me (us) to do this car was the fact that we wanted more reliable power plant and that we wanted to do a "cool project car", and to "do it right", and who the hell doesn't like the sound of a V8? You gotta be crazy not to like it!
So does this mean that you can't make a reliable 944 turbo engine? Nope. You can. But it takes considerably more money, in my opinion, to get a sustainable 400RWHP reliably, in race trim, in a 944 turbo engine than it does on a LS1 V8 engine.
Escalate the power up a notch to 450RWHP, in sustainable load race trim, and the price difference become even more apparent.
Go up to 500RWHP, in sustainable load race trim, and you're talking double the price (at a minimum). Call people that have many many years of engineering reliable high output 944 turbo race engines and ask what costs for a 500RWHP 944 turbo engine that can be raced at that power level for a 4 hour enduro race on a long track on a 100F day. Make sure you're sitting down.
Why? There are lots of reasons why. Apples-to-Oranges. Different beasts. Save those arguments for a different thread.
In the end, the cars are simply toys to us. Yes they are toys. If they were not toys, we would not own them. Instead, we would be driving Honda's, Nissan's, and Toyota's....
But you can rest assured, that we will be doing more of these 944 V8's in high quality fashion. We're already seriously talking about doing a 968 V8 that has a/c & heat, and full glass... And if I did one, it would be replacing my 911 as a daily driver for sure.
Anybody looking for a 340+ HP 3.6L, 993 interior, super duper nice 911SC with suspension and brakes, bla bla bla? $35k gets you the nicest SC/Carrera around!
TonyG
I'm even reluctant to comment on this thread, that I did not start, but proceeded to hijack unintentionally, which set off a super critical chain reaction.
The 944/968's are great cars for many reasons. I've played with these things for a long time.
I really don't like hybrids as personal, general rule. Why? Because 90% of the conversions I've personally seen (which isn't many) have been not of the quality and construction that I expect (some are far below acceptable standards in my book). Because of that, the hybrid thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.
And you should have seen this white, 944 turbo, rust bucket, done-in-a-barn-in-a-corn field-conversion that we bought off of ebay. We knew it was junk, but we wanted the conversion parts. This car was the source of entertainment for a long time... and because of that, nobody wanted to touch the then proposed V8 944 for several months. This car was not safe to operate at any speed.
Does that mean that hybrids are bad. Nope. Not at all.
What inspired me (us) to do this car was the fact that we wanted more reliable power plant and that we wanted to do a "cool project car", and to "do it right", and who the hell doesn't like the sound of a V8? You gotta be crazy not to like it!
So does this mean that you can't make a reliable 944 turbo engine? Nope. You can. But it takes considerably more money, in my opinion, to get a sustainable 400RWHP reliably, in race trim, in a 944 turbo engine than it does on a LS1 V8 engine.
Escalate the power up a notch to 450RWHP, in sustainable load race trim, and the price difference become even more apparent.
Go up to 500RWHP, in sustainable load race trim, and you're talking double the price (at a minimum). Call people that have many many years of engineering reliable high output 944 turbo race engines and ask what costs for a 500RWHP 944 turbo engine that can be raced at that power level for a 4 hour enduro race on a long track on a 100F day. Make sure you're sitting down.
Why? There are lots of reasons why. Apples-to-Oranges. Different beasts. Save those arguments for a different thread.
In the end, the cars are simply toys to us. Yes they are toys. If they were not toys, we would not own them. Instead, we would be driving Honda's, Nissan's, and Toyota's....
But you can rest assured, that we will be doing more of these 944 V8's in high quality fashion. We're already seriously talking about doing a 968 V8 that has a/c & heat, and full glass... And if I did one, it would be replacing my 911 as a daily driver for sure.
Anybody looking for a 340+ HP 3.6L, 993 interior, super duper nice 911SC with suspension and brakes, bla bla bla? $35k gets you the nicest SC/Carrera around!
TonyG
04-19-2006, 02:27 AM
#125
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Post #18
Post #124
Why did you changed your mind so quickly? I guess you are not a man of principles. 
Originally Posted by TonyG
Hey guys..
Drove it today. The car sounds like a Ferrari getting on it down Ventura Blvd in Studio City.
The thing is BAD-***.
It's 2640lbs with 1/3 tank of fuel.
All I can say is that I wish I had done this a LONG time ago. And, I wish I would have kept it a full street car because it would, without a doubt, be my everyday street car for a LONG time.
I also wish it had the 600Hp engine in it.. mu ha ha.
I think we're going to do a few more of these.
TonyG
PS> This thing is one thing that a 944 turbo will never be... reliable. Nothing like a good old fashion V8 baby!
Drove it today. The car sounds like a Ferrari getting on it down Ventura Blvd in Studio City.
The thing is BAD-***.
It's 2640lbs with 1/3 tank of fuel.
All I can say is that I wish I had done this a LONG time ago. And, I wish I would have kept it a full street car because it would, without a doubt, be my everyday street car for a LONG time.
I also wish it had the 600Hp engine in it.. mu ha ha.
I think we're going to do a few more of these.
TonyG
PS> This thing is one thing that a 944 turbo will never be... reliable. Nothing like a good old fashion V8 baby!
Originally Posted by TonyG
Guys...
I'm even reluctant to comment on this thread, that I did not start, but proceeded to hijack unintentionally, which set off a super critical chain reaction.
The 944/968's are great cars for many reasons. I've played with these things for a long time.
I really don't like hybrids as personal, general rule. Why? Because 90% of the conversions I've personally seen (which isn't many) have been not of the quality and construction that I expect (some are far below acceptable standards in my book). Because of that, the hybrid thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.
TonyG
I'm even reluctant to comment on this thread, that I did not start, but proceeded to hijack unintentionally, which set off a super critical chain reaction.
The 944/968's are great cars for many reasons. I've played with these things for a long time.
I really don't like hybrids as personal, general rule. Why? Because 90% of the conversions I've personally seen (which isn't many) have been not of the quality and construction that I expect (some are far below acceptable standards in my book). Because of that, the hybrid thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.
TonyG
04-19-2006, 02:46 AM
#126
Rennlist Junkie Forever
>>>Why did you changed your mind so quickly? I guess you are not a man of principles. <<<
I did not change anything. You are not understanding me. Why? Because you are either reading more into what I said than exists, or... I did not articulate my thoughts clearly (probably both).
I don't see how any of this has to do with my principles as a man.
People here were implying that becuase I did a V8 944, that I had given up on "regular" 944 turbos. Or that 944 turbos are inferior to a V8 944.
For the record, my position on the LS1 V8 vs the 951 engine is simply that the V8 is a better engine. The LS1 costs less per relable HP than the 951 engine does. And as the power levels go up, the price difference becomes greater. Plus.. there are no oil leaks :-)
And, up until this point, I did not like hybrids (of any flavor) for the reasons stated previously (which did not have anyting to do with the fact that a car is a hybrid, but rather that most of the conversions I've seen were done poorly).
Do I like the V8 944? Hell yes. The car IS .. BAD-***.
Am I going to do another one or more? Absolutely YES.
I just don't see this as an issue where I have to choose side of the fence to sit on. Yes I will do more 944 turbos in the future, and yes I will do more V8 944s in the future as well.
And like I said before... we're already seriously thinking about doing a 968 V8 next.
TonyG
I did not change anything. You are not understanding me. Why? Because you are either reading more into what I said than exists, or... I did not articulate my thoughts clearly (probably both).
I don't see how any of this has to do with my principles as a man.
People here were implying that becuase I did a V8 944, that I had given up on "regular" 944 turbos. Or that 944 turbos are inferior to a V8 944.
For the record, my position on the LS1 V8 vs the 951 engine is simply that the V8 is a better engine. The LS1 costs less per relable HP than the 951 engine does. And as the power levels go up, the price difference becomes greater. Plus.. there are no oil leaks :-)
And, up until this point, I did not like hybrids (of any flavor) for the reasons stated previously (which did not have anyting to do with the fact that a car is a hybrid, but rather that most of the conversions I've seen were done poorly).
Do I like the V8 944? Hell yes. The car IS .. BAD-***.
Am I going to do another one or more? Absolutely YES.
I just don't see this as an issue where I have to choose side of the fence to sit on. Yes I will do more 944 turbos in the future, and yes I will do more V8 944s in the future as well.
And like I said before... we're already seriously thinking about doing a 968 V8 next.
TonyG
04-19-2006, 03:06 AM
#127
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While we're on the subject on hybrids, why has no one
ever look into the Toyota Lexus V 8 engine ? That engine is
a real bullet proof unit ? Cheap from the breakers too.
Study the engine design & you will understand what I
mean.
ever look into the Toyota Lexus V 8 engine ? That engine is
a real bullet proof unit ? Cheap from the breakers too.
Study the engine design & you will understand what I
mean.
04-19-2006, 05:12 AM
#129
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by J Chen
While we're on the subject on hybrids, why has no one
ever look into the Toyota Lexus V 8 engine ? That engine is
a real bullet proof unit ? Cheap from the breakers too.
Study the engine design & you will understand what I
mean.
ever look into the Toyota Lexus V 8 engine ? That engine is
a real bullet proof unit ? Cheap from the breakers too.
Study the engine design & you will understand what I
mean.
Recently there was a twin turbo V8 dynoed here based on that engine. Low octane pump gas and about 16-18 psi. 1000 hp / 1000 nm. Sweet.
04-19-2006, 08:32 AM
#131
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Yes Duke,
That engine would kill any LS engine anytime.
In Japan those engine have been mod for 500hp
in NA form & they rev to 8000 rpm all day long.
Best of all besides upgraded piston & rods only
other thing needed are big cams
That engine would kill any LS engine anytime.
In Japan those engine have been mod for 500hp
in NA form & they rev to 8000 rpm all day long.
Best of all besides upgraded piston & rods only
other thing needed are big cams
04-19-2006, 09:28 AM
#132
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What i like about Tony's comments is that they are ultra logical and not heavily seasoned by emotion. I get the sense that he really doesnt care what anyone else does with their own car and he is posting just to let people know that there are different ways to get to where we all want to be: fast, powerful, torguey car that is classy, safe and a lot of fun to drive wherever we decide to drive it. My conversion has everything hooked up and working now EXCEPT the A/C which i will get to in June. The gauges work, the check engine light works, the warning lights all function just like it rolled out of the factory. i DELIGHT when the weather here in Ohio is such that i can drive the conversion to work. And you know what? I am betting that the guys that have the 944T engines probably have that SAME delight. And another epiphany? I am guessing there are a lot of us that would be delighted to drive EITHER of them to work. What cracks me up about all of the venomous posts is that we probably SHARE more passion about these cars than we disagree about them. Interesting psych project or something. My point for posting here is the same as Tony's- if you feel the need to create a car that is uniquely your own, LS,LT conversion is ONE way to do it. Not the best way per se, not the only way for sure. As fellow porsche owners, when we do something to our cars that we deem successful, it is natural to want to share it with other porsche owners.
04-19-2006, 01:45 PM
#134
Rennlist Member
I put in a suggestion for a hybrid forum to John D. and he said hes for it. Looks like the forum would include all porsche models with any conversion. Sould be a great section for info on new/different engine options.
04-19-2006, 01:55 PM
#135
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Tony,
Most of the hybrids I've seen do away with the booster. There was some talk recently of an electrically assisted booster that may fit. What have you done to address the removal of the brake booster? Are you happy with the results?
Most of the hybrids I've seen do away with the booster. There was some talk recently of an electrically assisted booster that may fit. What have you done to address the removal of the brake booster? Are you happy with the results?