MarkRobinson

The rigid exhaust path is too long. I'll ask my v-band/stainless experts this weekend about it, but might weld in a flexible bend on the last straight before the turbo, just to give the two points some give: shouldn't have any craking issues there...I dont feel the cracking issue is because of the head (as it isn't with any other turbo vehicle), it's that the path is too long & rigid with multiple bends & hot spots. Will verify my phylosophy, but a flexible piece is probalby necessary.

Assuming I needed deposits, $200 from each should be enough as it looks like there's about 10 interested parties. Will verify tomorrow: for now, it's just a question.

Mark.

Opeth

Id be willing to come off a deposit once theres a working prototype. See the Clear Lenses for Cheap post a month or so back ...

MarkRobinson

Hm, that's reasonable I think. Let me approach them with that idea. Thanks Derek.

nize

i would be hesitant to put down a deposit for a non-existent product...

DanR 1201

What about making them in thickwalled steel? Could be a considerable cost saving and easier to manage the expansion, distortion and cracking problems. I'd like to start with a tri-y set up that's a direct replacement for the OEM headers. If later on, I decide to modify further then I'd spend the extra for a stainless equal length system. Steel will still last several years and with regular use wouldn't rust internally. Externally could be ceramic coated.

Cory9584

Once I see the finished product I may give a deposit

951Boost

Mark, once you have the working prototype, a final detailed description of the exact product we will be purchasing and a firm (at least close) production/delivery date, I will be more than happy to send you a $200 deposit.

Zero10

I am curious about what kind of warranty there will be. You mention that you're not worried about cracking. Are you willing to back that up?
I'd hate to sink almost $1000, then have my headers crack in 6 months. I hope this isn't coming off too harshly, but it is a big concern of mine.

Other than that, if a prototype were made then I would be willing to put down a deposit.

I am not overly concerned about whether it is a 4-1 equal length, tri-y, or whatever the layout is. I am not looking for big power, just to replace what is broken.

ehall

I don't think it's too harsh. At this point in the conversation, Mark needs to hear the issues that he will certainly run into in this deal. These almost always go from a guy just doing something generous and interesting for the community, into business. Plain and simple. Hopefully neither Mark nor anyone else will take any of this in a personal way. Most of these have been good honest, and smart questions/considerations that Mark may as well handle head on. That way he can guage whether it really will be worth the R&D+ time+ potential hassles, to actually go forward.

I feel as many do. I'd like an alternative to SFR, and LR among the few others, but they have already done the R&D etc. so I know what I'm getting. That's where i too would stand with a deposit. Prototype and performance first, then I can justify making an investment.

Ofcourse that's why most guys like Mark don't end up building parts like this. Pretty expensive to get off the ground, before money flows back in.

Chris White

The group and Mark need to figure out what they are getting into – is this a commercial product or a project by a lister that he will share with the list. Big difference in price and general rules. If this ends up being a commercial product expect the price to be up near SFR. If he is doing this not as a commercial product then don’t expect warranties and anything else. You can’t have both!!

Chris White

MarkRobinson

I would offer a warranty at least as good as my competitors as far as quality, welds, etc. No worries there. I would offer this to the 'listers first, and if demand shows it, would offer them commercially as well. This is NOT a full-time job for me: Architecture is my profession, this is just my beloved hobby.

Let me get a prototype built first of the header/exhaust parts, then I'll have better grounds for negotiations with my manufacturer & if he still needs a deposit at that point, at least everyone here will know what it looks like/performs & can make a decision off of information at that point. :0

My thanks again for letting me ask you guys all these questions....now, If I can just talk my wife into allowing a lift/951 into our new garage....

Mark

d993

Oh, it is VERY possible.
Please, no BS (it stinks).
It all depends on how much $ you want to put in your pocket..........
I just had a 321SS 3.5" diameter TURBO BACK exhaust piping ordered for a friends' 951, and it cost me $226 for 8 feet of piping.
The 1.75"-2" diameter 321SS piping that would be used in these headers for the 951 cost about $12 a foot.
Simple math guys!

d993

Hey Mark,
I suggest you put a MFR (Mark Force Racing) tag on the headers and charge $1500 for 304SS and $1800 for 321SS.

nize

one of the things i've noticed in every industry is that most people will stop 'shopping around' with suppliers once they get a product to market.

a good example of this is a local porsche shop that was paying $180 for a valve and then re-selling them at $300 per, not realizing that valve prices have come down over the years and you can buy one retail for $100 today. when i pointed this out they called their supplier and surprise, their supplier said they can buy it for $90 now.

you should never stop shopping around and comparing prices, especially with suppliers. they like to try to 'lock you in' at the high price from months/years ago.

TurboTim

Last time I checked a 1.75" 321SS U-bend from Burns was well over $60.The bigger 2" tubing was over $100 for a u-bend! It only takes about two feet of straight for a U-bend but the price is high because of the machine that bends it.They are not cheap.So we use five 1.75" u-bends with a moderate radius-$300,two more 1.75" with a tight radius-$140(yeah the charge more for really tight radius bends and Burns doesnt even have them)two 2+" u bends-$200+,2ft straight 2+" 321 tube-$89,two V-band clamp assemblies-$200,1 merge collector-$400+,1 specially expanded piece for the wastegate-$25,four head flanges-$100 and one turbo flange which is machined-$75.Dont forget rod,labor,the costing of paying a certified TIG welder,overhead(which includes poaying for the $5000 TIG that the welding is done with),etc..... and you think I stink Your funny. What is real funny is that I have built 3.0L cars that make 4 times the power of your 951 and have been helping people for years.I think you were a bit out of line.AND IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT about anything I said,especially the prices, check for yourself www.burnsstainless.com