3.? Liter 16 Valve Turbo Thread
10-04-2007, 11:51 PM
#167
Rennlist Member
Who did the build for you or did you buy it done already? (I'm thinking not).
10-05-2007, 01:00 AM
#168
Man, this makes me want to build another. Is the 93.00mm Crank offset ground or did you have it made? I have never had it checked, so how big can you go and still have clearance for the Rods? Is 93.00mm the max or can you go even bigger. Makes the rods short, unless you have moved the Pin in the Pistron up. Love to hear more about the build too.
Great car. Me thinks there will be more of these very soon.
Great car. Me thinks there will be more of these very soon.
10-05-2007, 02:31 AM
#169
Bore is 108mm by 93mm stroke, Wiseco pistons
You have really nice looking car
10-05-2007, 12:47 PM
#171
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I've been looking at it it seems you can get the 93mm swing if you use carillos the bolts don't stick out so far . I considering a welded stroker crank but when i said it you all ignored me I'm starting to be more convinced i see how the crankshaft guru feels about it .
I think it is maybe worth 200cc to me and cost 1400$ wich is not so bad when you consider what we spend on the 500cc to get to 3.0 I'm already in a position were i need custom pistons .
Nice work on the front bar looks factory more photos please
I think it is maybe worth 200cc to me and cost 1400$ wich is not so bad when you consider what we spend on the 500cc to get to 3.0 I'm already in a position were i need custom pistons .
Nice work on the front bar looks factory more photos please
10-05-2007, 02:43 PM
#174
I can not confirm wrapping the tubes make any differenece, but being in a very warm climate and noticing how hot the engine bay gets, I believes it won't do any harm. I have noticed the metal tubes being cold to the touch while the engine bay is way hot. Using the reflecting wrapping would probably be better yet, as I did in the intake manifold.
As for the short block I don't know how it was done. I do have photos of the crankshaft, the rods and pistons before installation, but they are not digitals.
When I switched to a Cometic headgasket I measured the bore and the stroke, so I do know is a 3.4xx lts.
The only technical problem with a 108mm bore is that headgaskets only go up to 106.5 mm so it does stick out a little. In practice I have not have any problems with it in over a year. I hope someone eventually does a 108.5 mm bore headgasket. Cometics does have a limit because of the groove on their gasket.
As for the short block I don't know how it was done. I do have photos of the crankshaft, the rods and pistons before installation, but they are not digitals.
When I switched to a Cometic headgasket I measured the bore and the stroke, so I do know is a 3.4xx lts.
The only technical problem with a 108mm bore is that headgaskets only go up to 106.5 mm so it does stick out a little. In practice I have not have any problems with it in over a year. I hope someone eventually does a 108.5 mm bore headgasket. Cometics does have a limit because of the groove on their gasket.
Last edited by zagaone; 10-08-2007 at 04:21 PM.
10-05-2007, 03:21 PM
#175
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10-05-2007, 03:28 PM
#176
Rennlist Member
I can not confirm wrapping the tubes make any differenece, but being in a very warm climate and noticing how hot the engine bay gets, I believes it won't do any harm. I have noticed the metal tubes being cold to the touch while the engine bay is way hot. Using the reflecting wrapping would probably be better yet, as I did in the intake manifold.
As for the short block I don't know how it was done. I do have photos of the crankshaft, the rods and pistons before installation, but they are not digitals.
When I switched to a Cometic headgasket I measured the bore and the stroke, so I do know is a 3.4xx lts.
The only technical problem with a 108mm bore is that headgaskets only go up to 106.5 mm so it does stick out a little. In practice I have not have any problems with it in over a year. I hope someone eventually does a 108.5 mm bore headgasket. Cometics does have a limit because of the groove on their gasket.
As for the short block I don't know how it was done. I do have photos of the crankshaft, the rods and pistons before installation, but they are not digitals.
When I switched to a Cometic headgasket I measured the bore and the stroke, so I do know is a 3.4xx lts.
The only technical problem with a 108mm bore is that headgaskets only go up to 106.5 mm so it does stick out a little. In practice I have not have any problems with it in over a year. I hope someone eventually does a 108.5 mm bore headgasket. Cometics does have a limit because of the groove on their gasket.
10-05-2007, 04:55 PM
#178
Duke :
Your statement is what I mostly heard from everyone, but I have my own theory. Let discuss it.
By basic physics compress air is hotter than the air you start with. This means that the air, not necessarilly the pipe, is going to be hotter, that the outside temp., again not necessarily the engine bay temp.
So I figure that only during hard boost you are really going to get hotter air passing through the pipe. This condition is only a minor percentage of the system operating time. During most of the operating time air inside the pipes is going to be colder than the engine bay temperature. The engine heat is going into the ambient air in the engine bay.
From observation at the dyno I noticed that even after a few(5) runs both pipes were pretty cold to the touch (before wrapping them). Since my body felt the pipes cold they must be colder than my body temperature. I did felt the ambient air around me warmer.
So even under full boost the pipes were colder than the engine bay temperature. That does not mean the air inside was.
My conclusion was that:
1. Off boost, a condition that account for most of the operating time, wrapping the pipes is helpful.Engine bay hotter than air inside the pipes and the pipes.
2. Under full boost, even though the air inside the pipes is hotter, this heat is not being transfer completely through the pipes, maybe because of the air speed trough the pipes or the thick steel they are made off(they still pretty thin, way thinner than aluminum). So I did not want to transfer heat from the engine bay to the pipes as to create a continuos hot pipes as the cold pipes might serve as a heat sink under boost and as fins during off boost.
Variable that might affect my conclusions.
Ambient temp. : Sweeden is a lot colder that the tropic. Avg. temp.: 100F
Pipes material: Aluminum pipes might behave different. A lot better heat transfer. Have not try them. These might change only the conditions under full boost.
This is just my observation. Feel free to discuss honestly.
Angel
Your statement is what I mostly heard from everyone, but I have my own theory. Let discuss it.
By basic physics compress air is hotter than the air you start with. This means that the air, not necessarilly the pipe, is going to be hotter, that the outside temp., again not necessarily the engine bay temp.
So I figure that only during hard boost you are really going to get hotter air passing through the pipe. This condition is only a minor percentage of the system operating time. During most of the operating time air inside the pipes is going to be colder than the engine bay temperature. The engine heat is going into the ambient air in the engine bay.
From observation at the dyno I noticed that even after a few(5) runs both pipes were pretty cold to the touch (before wrapping them). Since my body felt the pipes cold they must be colder than my body temperature. I did felt the ambient air around me warmer.
So even under full boost the pipes were colder than the engine bay temperature. That does not mean the air inside was.
My conclusion was that:
1. Off boost, a condition that account for most of the operating time, wrapping the pipes is helpful.Engine bay hotter than air inside the pipes and the pipes.
2. Under full boost, even though the air inside the pipes is hotter, this heat is not being transfer completely through the pipes, maybe because of the air speed trough the pipes or the thick steel they are made off(they still pretty thin, way thinner than aluminum). So I did not want to transfer heat from the engine bay to the pipes as to create a continuos hot pipes as the cold pipes might serve as a heat sink under boost and as fins during off boost.
Variable that might affect my conclusions.
Ambient temp. : Sweeden is a lot colder that the tropic. Avg. temp.: 100F
Pipes material: Aluminum pipes might behave different. A lot better heat transfer. Have not try them. These might change only the conditions under full boost.
This is just my observation. Feel free to discuss honestly.
Angel
Last edited by zagaone; 10-05-2007 at 05:22 PM.
10-05-2007, 05:19 PM
#179
Nordschleife Master
Angel, I agree with you on the off boost-situation and with occasional sprints on the street it's probably better to have the turbo outlet pipe wrapped.
But with avg. outside temp of 100F and 16 psi of boost the turbo outlet air is around 300F.
So for a track car with continious boost I'd would not consider a wrapped turbo outlet pipe to be a good idea.
BTW what pistons and rods are you running?
But with avg. outside temp of 100F and 16 psi of boost the turbo outlet air is around 300F.
So for a track car with continious boost I'd would not consider a wrapped turbo outlet pipe to be a good idea.
BTW what pistons and rods are you running?
10-05-2007, 05:49 PM
#180
Agreed. I use the car mostly on the streets, plus I don't think either way makes much of a power difference. Boil downs to personnal usage and looks.
Pistons are Wiseco. I have not been able to figure out what the rods are from the photos I have. The crankshaft is a piece of art. You can see the pistons in the photo I attached previously.
Make sure you block the water recirculation system in the water pump. I did take the heater lines out as I needed all the water to cool the engine, plus no heater needed here. A bigger radiator is a must, specially since I kept the a/c working. Your condition in Sweeden might be the other way around, no a/c but heater needed. Plus I have a double oil cooler setup. One oem cooler on each side of the front of the car.
Angel
Pistons are Wiseco. I have not been able to figure out what the rods are from the photos I have. The crankshaft is a piece of art. You can see the pistons in the photo I attached previously.
Make sure you block the water recirculation system in the water pump. I did take the heater lines out as I needed all the water to cool the engine, plus no heater needed here. A bigger radiator is a must, specially since I kept the a/c working. Your condition in Sweeden might be the other way around, no a/c but heater needed. Plus I have a double oil cooler setup. One oem cooler on each side of the front of the car.
Angel