V8 in, early review
11-20-2007, 09:15 AM
#182
Rennlist Junkie Forever
>>>Any one have a CORRECT, FACTUAL weight of a longblock ls1?<<<
GM lists is as 450lbs with torque plate and 490lbs with clutch (stock flywheels on LS1's are very heavy, around 35lbs). Both figures are for complete dressed long blocks.
FWIW, I use a lightweight aluminum flywheel.
TonyG
GM lists is as 450lbs with torque plate and 490lbs with clutch (stock flywheels on LS1's are very heavy, around 35lbs). Both figures are for complete dressed long blocks.
FWIW, I use a lightweight aluminum flywheel.
TonyG
11-20-2007, 04:54 PM
#184
11-20-2007, 05:01 PM
#185
The 928 engine, 32V, is almost too wide for the 928, let alone the 944. You should see the engine bay of the 928 when you put a small block in it. You could add two turbos and it would still be less than the dressed 32V block - which I think is around 600 pounds.
11-20-2007, 05:04 PM
#186
I
The comment about hating them... Didn't mean to offend anyone (Brendan), it's just that I've had lousy terrible experiences owning 928s and I will never again own one, or let my dad own one (he's the one who kept buying them). I just thought I'd add another point of view to consider.
The comment about hating them... Didn't mean to offend anyone (Brendan), it's just that I've had lousy terrible experiences owning 928s and I will never again own one, or let my dad own one (he's the one who kept buying them). I just thought I'd add another point of view to consider.
11-24-2007, 08:31 PM
#188
Race Car
Wait... that 911 engine is twin turbo.... nice.
I would imagine some modification is required to the lower area of the engine bay to gain the width required, but that would do amazing things to the weight distribution and for lowering the center of gravity. My hat is off to those fellows.
As for the 928 engine comment, the frame just isn't wide enough, you can't shoehorn one in there no matter how hard you try. Even if you did, you would have no room for the accessories or your brake master cylinder, let alone the booster
LS1's are the way to go. Once you build up a 928 motor it's not really 'all porsche' anymore, is it? Honestly, if I could go back in time, instead of rebuilding my 2.5L to stock specs, sinking $4k into it then an additional $3k in incidentals over the next 2 years (engine-wise ONLY) I would rather have sunk the money on an LS1 and at least have 300+hp to show for it.
I would imagine some modification is required to the lower area of the engine bay to gain the width required, but that would do amazing things to the weight distribution and for lowering the center of gravity. My hat is off to those fellows.
As for the 928 engine comment, the frame just isn't wide enough, you can't shoehorn one in there no matter how hard you try. Even if you did, you would have no room for the accessories or your brake master cylinder, let alone the booster
LS1's are the way to go. Once you build up a 928 motor it's not really 'all porsche' anymore, is it? Honestly, if I could go back in time, instead of rebuilding my 2.5L to stock specs, sinking $4k into it then an additional $3k in incidentals over the next 2 years (engine-wise ONLY) I would rather have sunk the money on an LS1 and at least have 300+hp to show for it.
11-24-2007, 09:54 PM
#189
What balance does a V8 944 have? I know with modified 944 turbos you can get out of shape real quick with good HP what happens with these big V8's? It seems the car would be all over the place with all that instant torque unless you did some serious suspension work and body work to get a wide enough tire to match the engine. At that point I think it would be a better idea to buy a camaro or a vette that was designed for a V8.
11-24-2007, 10:19 PM
#190
Burning Brakes
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At that point I think it would be a better idea to buy a camaro or a vette that was designed for a V8.
11-24-2007, 10:26 PM
#191
Rennlist Junkie Forever
>>>What balance does a V8 944 have?<<<
No noticeable difference. The cars balance out about the same.
>>>I know with modified 944 turbos you can get out of shape real quick with good HP what happens with these big V8's?<<<
It's close to the same. But the V8 is easier to be faster on a track with due to the fact that you are not dealing with turbo lag, then a big rush of power all of a sudden.
Instead, you have a situation where there is no turbo lag. No matter the rpm, there is always a lot of power to pull you out of a corner smoothly. In fact, what happens with the V8, is that you find yourself doing a lot less shifting because you're dealing with a power band that is so much wider.
All three (no lag, no sudden rush of power, and less shifting) combine to form a distinct advantage around a track.
My LS1 V8 doesn't make the peak power that my former 951 did (for the time being...), but it's still faster around both short tracks and long tracks.
Plus... aside from everything else, it's just more fun to drive.
>>>It seems the car would be all over the place with all that instant torque unless you did some serious suspension work and body work to get a wide enough tire to match the engine<<<
No. It's not unless you're intentionally trying to spin the tires.
Stock body work supports 275 front and 295 rear tires. That's plenty of rubber to be pretty fast around a track.
TonyG
No noticeable difference. The cars balance out about the same.
>>>I know with modified 944 turbos you can get out of shape real quick with good HP what happens with these big V8's?<<<
It's close to the same. But the V8 is easier to be faster on a track with due to the fact that you are not dealing with turbo lag, then a big rush of power all of a sudden.
Instead, you have a situation where there is no turbo lag. No matter the rpm, there is always a lot of power to pull you out of a corner smoothly. In fact, what happens with the V8, is that you find yourself doing a lot less shifting because you're dealing with a power band that is so much wider.
All three (no lag, no sudden rush of power, and less shifting) combine to form a distinct advantage around a track.
My LS1 V8 doesn't make the peak power that my former 951 did (for the time being...), but it's still faster around both short tracks and long tracks.
Plus... aside from everything else, it's just more fun to drive.
>>>It seems the car would be all over the place with all that instant torque unless you did some serious suspension work and body work to get a wide enough tire to match the engine<<<
No. It's not unless you're intentionally trying to spin the tires.
Stock body work supports 275 front and 295 rear tires. That's plenty of rubber to be pretty fast around a track.
TonyG
11-24-2007, 11:14 PM
#193
Rennlist Junkie Forever
>>>How do you like the 911 you built and how does it perform compared to the hybrid?<<<
By "built" you must be referring to the 3.6L 911SC.
The 911 is sold. The 951 V8 is here. :-)
Seriously... they are apples and oranges the V8 notwithstanding. I really liked my last 3.6 SC. It was fast, but not fast enough to keep my attention. I was at the point where I was seriously considering installing a 993TT engine. But it was just too much money to put into a car that I was already in too deep with as it was. And without more power, the car became boring.
The 951 V8 is without a doubt, faster than any of my previous 951's or N/A 911's. The best past, is that considerably more power (not that it needs it) is relatively easy to obtain cost effectively while retaining the excellent LS engine reliability. All while doing it on 91 pump gas.
The V8 is really a natural fit with respect to the way the car responds to and feels with the V8. It does not feel out of place. After driving it, you sit there and think... wow. Porsche should have done this :-)
TonyG
By "built" you must be referring to the 3.6L 911SC.
The 911 is sold. The 951 V8 is here. :-)
Seriously... they are apples and oranges the V8 notwithstanding. I really liked my last 3.6 SC. It was fast, but not fast enough to keep my attention. I was at the point where I was seriously considering installing a 993TT engine. But it was just too much money to put into a car that I was already in too deep with as it was. And without more power, the car became boring.
The 951 V8 is without a doubt, faster than any of my previous 951's or N/A 911's. The best past, is that considerably more power (not that it needs it) is relatively easy to obtain cost effectively while retaining the excellent LS engine reliability. All while doing it on 91 pump gas.
The V8 is really a natural fit with respect to the way the car responds to and feels with the V8. It does not feel out of place. After driving it, you sit there and think... wow. Porsche should have done this :-)
TonyG
11-25-2007, 04:12 AM
#194
Rennlist Member
Speaking of V8s, does anyone remember the 914 with a 928 engine in it the factory built especially for Mr. Piech? 
My oh my. TonyG driving a renegade 944. Never thought I'd see the day. Sounds like fun, though!
My oh my. TonyG driving a renegade 944. Never thought I'd see the day. Sounds like fun, though!
11-25-2007, 12:11 PM
#195
Rennlist Junkie Forever
>>>My oh my. TonyG driving a renegade 944. Never thought I'd see the day. Sounds like fun, though!<<<
Me neither!
I could not stand hybrid cars. Every hybrid I had seen, not that I had paid that much attention to hybrids... (at that point) seemed more home made kit rather than factory engineered.
And if it were up to me, this car would have not been built. It was my friend Dan that insisted on building this car. I tried every way I could to stop it. I called him every name in the book. I teased him. I taunted him. He still wanted to build it.
It almost killed me to take the new 2.85L new engine out of this car... which was totally installed with the exception of the intake manifold (but never started), it put in the V8.
But with the engine was installed with the car on the lift the fit and finish of the parts were top-notch and it looked professionally engineered in every way, there was no denying something special was about to hit the road. There was no denying the coolness of the car...
And once driven, we knew the right choice was made. Not only is it a blast to drive, it had power and reliability that a turbo 4 would never know, irrespective of the money thrown at it.
The car made me a believer.
Since then, it's only gotten a lot better. Every time I drive the car, I like it more.
TonyG
Me neither!
I could not stand hybrid cars. Every hybrid I had seen, not that I had paid that much attention to hybrids... (at that point) seemed more home made kit rather than factory engineered.
And if it were up to me, this car would have not been built. It was my friend Dan that insisted on building this car. I tried every way I could to stop it. I called him every name in the book. I teased him. I taunted him. He still wanted to build it.
It almost killed me to take the new 2.85L new engine out of this car... which was totally installed with the exception of the intake manifold (but never started), it put in the V8.
But with the engine was installed with the car on the lift the fit and finish of the parts were top-notch and it looked professionally engineered in every way, there was no denying something special was about to hit the road. There was no denying the coolness of the car...
And once driven, we knew the right choice was made. Not only is it a blast to drive, it had power and reliability that a turbo 4 would never know, irrespective of the money thrown at it.
The car made me a believer.
Since then, it's only gotten a lot better. Every time I drive the car, I like it more.
TonyG