special tool

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

YOU DON'T NEED MOTEC IN 2005 - THAT IS ONLY A WAY OF GETTNG YOU SEPERATED FROM YOUR MONEY!!!!
Motec has gotten complacent in recent years, relying on their name to carry them - they won't be around much longer. Their response has been to RAISE prices!!! - you believe that ****???

Anyway Joe - you just need a turbocharger that was designed AFTER 1969 and timing for a 3 liter crank, not a 2.5.

RolexNJ

So ST, what are you saying, his turbo isn't cutting-edge along with "optimal" timing?

hosrom_951

Rob,
What ST means is that you dont use a K27 with a 16v 3.0L and standard chips (MAF or AFM) wouldn't be good since those are tuned in for the 2.5L 8v engines.

Maybe Joe should have went for a K29 at least

fast951

Joe you are making good numbers, the 16V head is timing friendly much more than the 8V head.. Enjoy the car.

black944 turbo

Also a 2.5" exhaust and 52lb injector would be inadequate, for realy high h.p. Wonderful car though.

DFASTEST951

Whao! Hosrom, I have a custom K29 that has been precisely machined to blow like a much larger turbo. More hp with minimal lag and tq to match.
John, thanks for the compliment. I'm sure powerhaus knew what they were doing when they built it. ST thinks my timing seems to be off though. Do you think he is wrong?
Black944Turbo, I realize I could use a bigger exhaust and injectors and I will probably get them in the future. I just pointed out to show there is more power to be had with my car.

fast951

I cannot comment on the timing on your car as I have no idea what timing you are using. Special Tool is correct by saying that the 3.0L timing is much more critical, and if 2.5L timing was used it can be problematic. If your car was tuned on the dyno, and you had no problem, then I would think it's fine... In addition to timing, there is the backpressure, so it's not as simple as it appears...


Your injectors are not large enough for your engine, but if your AFR is fine, then nothing to worry about on the street. Before upgrading, plan on having the car retuned as with larger injectors your AFR will be WAY off. BTW I would want to see 83# injectors on your car.. And yes, it should idle like factory.

hosrom_951

Joe,
A K29 is indeed a monster of a turbocharger, but tool made a very good point on the chips (timing).

AL951

Dfastest, I wouldn't worry about your timing and turbo. Powerhaus seem to know what their doing when it come to 3L 16v engines. You should just enjoy your car. Hey! How many of us can honestly say that their car makes 480 rwhp all day every day!..............you have and very special car and that is all that should matter.

Regards,
AL

DFASTEST951

John, thanks for the tip. Al, thanks for the compliment...

NZ951

Exactly, Powerhaus know how to build high HP 944 turbos. Much like Vitesse knows how to. I know this is to the contrary of one vendors recent publishing on the Turbo944 forum... which is a poor way to conduct business if you ask me.

black944 turbo

Dfastest I love your car and always have admired it. I was in no way insulting it. Sorry if it came across that way.

DFASTEST951

Black 944turbo, never came across that way at all. There are some things that are being said out there by other "tuners" about my car and some of the statements aren't true so I just wanted to clear that up in case you read it somewhere or whatever. Another topic, no offense taken and thanks again for the compliment.

TurboTommy

Special Tool,
why don't you tell us why you think his timing is off.
How the hell do you know what his timing is anyway? Not to mention there's a difference between a 3.0L 8 valve and a 16 valve head.
The only thing I could think of is that you (and John from Vitesse) think he needs more advance for his larger displacement cylinders.

As far as his turbocharger is concerned, it doesn't matter how ancient you think it is; all that matters is can it flow enough CFM on the compressor side, and does the turbine side give the proper boost pressure/turbine inlet pressure relationship that will suite the end user. If this criteria can be met, it will not be any worse or better than a "more modern" unit. There might be small differences like surge line slope, small variances in value and location of peak effeciencies, etc; but these are quite minor.
Most european manufacturers still use "KKK" turbos. They're obviously not all stupid.


I, myself, have experimented with different configurations of exhaust on my 3.0L. One extreme example (for testing purposes) was no exhaust at all!
Conclusion: as long as your turbine housing has adequate flow, more than 2.5 inch exhaust will not net any more power!


I must admit, the 52 lb injector size has me a bit puzzled. I'm also using them and I don't run out of injector. As far as I've heard (from a couple of sources) these actually flow quite a bit more than their rating; and they're robust in that they can deal with high fuel pressures and running them up to 100 % duty cycle without problem. So, I don't know!

D'Fastest,
if one does some simple common sense mathematics (your displacement, your VE from the 4 valve head, and given your boost), I think you have one of the most real life hp figures in this thread. You ARE NOT leaving 100 ponies on the table! I wouldn't be gettin' your panties in a knot because of what others (and their somewhat...............ahem...............inflated numbers) suggest.

OriginalSterm

Wow, only 52 lb/hr injectors??? Seems like a lot of power for those injectors ,even with the 50 psi the Powerhaus website stated. And only a 2 1/2" exhaust!!! Sounds like you have a lot left on the table like ST said!