how does adding a kokeln stage V turbo prove that you can make 300rwhp with a k26/6???

that's like saying the vitesse stage 3 dynoed at 450rwhp therefore my k27/8 can also dyno at 450rwhp. come on guys!

 

Hey, I wanna think it's possible too. All I'm asking for is a dyno run. And how you were able to achieve it, when a lot of tuners (not guys plugging in chips) weren't able to do the same thing.

If it's possible, it'd be nice to have it out in the open as to how it's possible. I did a lot of r&d on my 951 and have been open as to everything that I've done. I have a lot of 951 friends that are interested in being able to do the same thing, since swapping turbos ain't exactly easy on our cars.

 

ditto for me

 

Well like I said I document everything. The result's will be posted weither they be good or bad. I will let you guy's know regardless. Going to be a little while first I need to get the new head and get it fitted and the car running again....

No way to get dyno number's without a running car. heh heh heh

 

Swapping turbos can be very easy... except for them pesky bolts.

 

shaheed: what i meant to say is check out this months issue, with 2 upgrade and fine tuning it was pushing a mere 421bhp at the flywheel.

Gaining 20hp each time they fine tuned the DME

Its all in tuning!

That was my point

 

If I had to make a gamble, id say Johns 951 is pushing 300rwhp or even more since he was so kind to mail me some of his racing clips and seeing as it shows hims smoking modded Mustangs, Trans Ams and new vettes. He would have to be running 300 to the wheels or more.

In my opinion he knows what he is talking about and I think highly of his opinions/facts...

 

Alot of information that one gets about the power of his engine is subjective (even dyno results are less than accurate).
One thing that is not subjective is engineering/mathematics.
An engine can only make power up to the weekest link in the chain of events. In this case we are argueing the turbo and it goes by how much CFM it can flow. The general concensus is that the stock compressor has a max flow of about 400 CFM (we welcome any different opinions/proof of this figure) and this will determine your max power. If, in fact, this CFM is correct, that will indicate a max power potential of about 325 crank hp.
If your fuel and spark is not optimal, you will have less.
If your compressor inlet does not see sea level pressure, you will have less.
No amount of tuning, or increasing boost, or water injection can change these engineering/mathematical facts.
It doesn't matter who you blew off the road or what dyno sheets you're producing; that's all the power you're going to have (increasing compression ratio will get you a little more).

Like I said before, the real variable here is how much does the stock turbo actually flow in CFM? Is it possible that there are differences between stock turbos? I don't know about that.

 

John, Could it be possible that your turbo was rebuilt at some time and what we hear as a "cheater" wheels were installed ? Looks stock but not.

As an aside,
In this months European Car (Sept) there is 1.8ltr Audi A4 claiming 530BHP with a K26/27 hybrid, does not say at what boost.

 

David-

I was thinking the exact same thing. Your performance is right inline with a K26/8 which I think the cheater turbo tries to emulate.

Max

 

Is it possible that there are differences between stock turbos? I don't know about that.

I probably know less about turbos than anyone, and i would say an emphatic, YES, there are differences in stock turbos, age and wear alone would be a major difference. Some turbos probably were ever so slightly better in the first place, and each turbo has undergone different environments and would age differently. For instance a brand new stock 951 500 mile turbo (and evey other part not replaces) would out perform a 15 year old stock 100,00 mile 951. Then within the category of older cars, just as some 951's in general have weathered that strom and either died, or are in fair, medium, or top condition, so is true with individual internal parts, such as the turbo.

 

I think the main point of the matter is that people have had problems keeping anything more that 10-12# boost at redline on a stock 26/6. It has been almost universally reported that no one can maintain 15# to redline no matter what what MBC/EBC/wastegate combo is tried.

John may have the 2" inlet of the K26 compressor, but it is likely he must have the #8 turbine which IS capable of holding more boost to redline without running out of steam. Anything that can hold 20# of boost at redline - 60 Hifi, T4, or 20,000 hamsters sequentially exhaling into the intercooler - can make great power. A stock 26/6 doing so is unreal. I have seen the videos and have no doubt his car is making the kind of power that he estimates. I do think he has a good combination of components, good tuning, but ALSO a turbo with a bigger boost map than K26/6.

www.realhamster.com - WTF?

 

GOOD LUCK on the search for power. I hope that cures your sensetive side.

All I'm asking for is proof on 300+rwhp with a k26/6. If you don't have it, than don't claim it. The videos were great, I enjoyed them. Does it make me think you have 300+hp, no. sorry

I'm with rage. I tried all sorts of things and never dynoed 300+hp with a k26/6. I guess I'm not a pro tuner. I'm also not downing Lindsey Racing, I like them. I have many products from them ie. intake, bypass valve and the newest group buy.

It would have been also nice to dyno your car as is, before the head work. That way you know what you have before hand.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. Far from it. I wish you the best of luck and have no further reason to reply, until I see proof. Then I would love to shake your hand and tell you that you have a awsome car.

 

"John, Could it be possible that your turbo was rebuilt at some time and what we hear as a "cheater" wheels were installed ? Looks stock but not."

Yep. See my signature. Exact same size as stock, but 2.75 inlet and holds 18+ psi to redline.

Have you had your turbo out of your car John??

Also, in regards to you doing runs in different boost settings, that would also explain why you might have a non stock K26/6, as with a stock turbo, for the most part, turning up the boost does not met much in terms of hp gains, however, in your case and runs of yours I have seen, turning up the boost does show gains in performance and therefore would indicate, whatever kind of turbo it is, it is NOT running out of steam. Even running higher octanes with those higher boost runs, would not net any more hp, but merely fight off knock.

"For instance a brand new stock 951 500 mile turbo (and evey other part not replaces) would out perform a 15 year old stock 100,00 mile 951. Then within the category of older cars, just as some 951's in general have weathered that strom and either died, or are in fair, medium, or top condition, so is true with individual internal parts, such as the turbo."

Nail on the head. I can't see an 86 with K26/6 thats been drivin' into the gound and 200K miles being as effecient in producing cfm/hp as the same model that has been pampered and only 10K miles. Or at least the tubos themselves, on a flow bench, would probably flow different CFM.

In using TurboTommy's 400cfm=325hp, you get 1.23cfm per hp. So if one turbo only flows 20 less cfm, you got difference of 16 hp, which could be the difference in 285 at the wheels on one car and 300 at the wheels on the exact same model. One turbo/car is just a little more worn then the other.

"In this months European Car (Sept) there is 1.8ltr Audi A4 claiming 530BHP with a K26/27 hybrid"

Ok, I gotta read that one and see if that could be my "mystery turbo" As danno keeps saying mine sounds like a k27, i.e. full boost not till 3600-3800 rpm, 2.75 inlet, holds high boost to redline, but it is same size as k26. Off to the book store.

 

It seems opinion's are different. It seems most people believe I am making the power I say I am they just think the turbo isint as stock as I claim. Other's like evil 944t don't feel I am making the power at all regardless of circumstance or turbosizing he feel's my car aint making 300rwhp.

I measured the inlet and it's a 2 inch inlet. Remember my motor/turbo/tranny/rear end/ect.ect. all only have as of now 18k miles logged. I have receipts for most of the rebuilding work done. Some stuff was just upgraded like the coil over's on the car, the springs,bushing's,Quaffie LSD, Turbo S gear's, Steel syncro's,ect.

It would also seem my car is slightly lighter than most. It weighed in at 3047lbs at ennis raceway. Considering the year and all the option's....it would seem most car's are in the 3150-3200lbs range...while my remain's slightly lighter. I dunno. Too many factor's.

All I can tell you is the car will be making 300rwhp on the dynojet. The head won't make much of a difference consider I am just going with a stage 1 and not a stage 2(no porting) Dave Lindsey decided this would be a much better way to go considering my hp goal's and future mods. The stage 1 head will hold up fine to the abuse I will be putting it through and that's all that matter's.

My end goal's are pretty simple and at this point I am willing to throw whatever time and or money is takes to get the car where I want it. I will be making 400rwhp on 18psi and pump gas with a 2.5ltr. Considering the condition of my motor I think it will hold just fine. I need about 40-50k outta this motor before I build my 3.0ltr.

Dave has done all the performance work on the car to date and will continue to do so in the future. Their service is un believeable and the fact that he takes time outta his busy schedule to install my new part's and personal tune it just the way I want it is very impressive. I have spent thousand's of doller's with his company and will continue to do so in the future(he will be the one to eventually build my 3.0ltr)

The reason I say this to you guy's if I find that it makes all the difference in the world. The aftermarket support for our car's is just crazy. The knowledge that is open for anyone to have on this board is impressive. Guru racing/Vitesse/Lindsey we are lucky to have such great tuner's at our disposal. The problem is when you only include one tuner in one aspect of the car you get limited result's. I firmly believe that if you guy's would do what I do and literaly let them have at it on your ride...you would be astounded at the outcome. It's hard for them to decide what's best for your car 2 thousand miles away. They aren't there working on it with you. They don't get to drive it. How in the hell are they going to be able to give you the absolute best performance....and the truth is they can't. They are so good at what they do though that people still see very serious performance inreases with their car's anyway. I promise you though if you were to just take your car to them drop it off, let them find out about you and what the car will be used for....I would be willing to bet your car would be making more power and would run like it was new as well. I did the math after the new turbo install I will have 7k in just the performance side of my car.......and it's worth every penny.

I will bring the result's on the dynojet. I will document everything. My car does make 300rwhp and I will have a 400+rwhp 2.5ltr.

I wish all of you luck on your car's as I would hope you wish me the very same.


Todd made some real good point's with his post.
Todd to answer your question no the turbo has not been out of the car since I have owned it.





***edit*** sorry also to say my car does hold 20psi all the way to redline and the as far as preformace increase per lb of boost I will break it down in my terms.


12psi.....beating most stangs on the road along with LT1's. Pulling most turbo econo import car's as well with little trouble.

14psi.....smoking cobra's like their sitting still and pulling on stock to light bolt on ls1's(Ta's SS's,Z28's). C5's slowly pull on me.

16psi.....smoking bolt on ls1's and almost even with ls1 c5's(I inch out up top)
Also beaten every other turbo import I run into(3rd gen's,300zxtt's,vr4's,ect.)

18psi.....At this point a Ta or Z28 isiint worth the gas and I can safely pull ls1 c5's by 5-6 car link's

20psi.....ls1 c5's aren't worth the gas. I could prolly pull older viper's without much trouble(never got the chance) and would like to run into a 996tt. I pull 1-2 car's on zo6's.