alex70

It'll work out. Use a bigger hammer was what one friend jested.

I wish I had a place to work on my 85 and 87 years ago. Was at complex, no garage, but carport and they did not allow work on cars. I did sneak in brake jobs in middle of the night on my cars but that was about it. I had 5 cars onsite and they were not to happy with me anyhow...

Good luck with the wrenching, it'll work out!

Martin's928

All this advice is bang on. I can't agree more with the "take your time" mantra.

There is more online help for the 928 than for any car I've seen out there. Such a complex mechanical system but if you step back and read what others have written, think about what you see, and, like someone said, go do something else, it's amazing how your mind will eventually get the problem in focus. It's ultimately an extremely well thought out and logically designed car. There is a way almost everything can be done well, it's just not always immediately obvious to my simple mind.

Like others say: stick with it. Don't worry if it isn't making sense. It will and someone out there (usually on rennlist) will have a way of explaining it which makes sense to you. When it does, you'll start seeing the inner beauty of this car.

Geo55

Only been at it a year. Take your time, do it right. Ask the knowledgeable ones, they are always willing to help. Check out http://www.dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/ great write-ups, lots of detailed stuff. Good luck and remember there are lots of us Noobies right there with you. Be patient, take breaks and think about it.

Shawn Stanford

Thanks for chiming in, everyone. I was just bitching out of frustration. I'm coming to realize that Porsche engineered the **** out of that car, and that everything is placed to a fare-thee-well.

I made good progress tonight: all the belts are off, the fan and shroud are out, the alternator is dropped, and the dipstick is out. I started to pull the oil return tube and call it a night, when oil came out of the return tube and I realized that I need to drain the oil. So, I called it a night.

Further updates as events warrant.

Shawn Stanford

Yep. For better or worse, the cam seals are toward the tail end of a complete timing belt/WP job. Since I'm going all the way in there, I might as well do it all. Then I can hold my head up high at gatherings and offer sage advice.

I should work this debacle into a Flussig article.

GregBBRD

I've done a bit of work on these cars, here and there.....nothing serious, just fuss with one here and there.

Trust me:
They weren't easy to work on when they were new. They weren't easy to work on when they were a few years old and only needed maintenance. They certainly are not easy to work on now that they are older and have multiple ailments and have been worked on by multiple idiots.

I just finished a '91 which had been through 2 sets of "do it yourself" people....one who was very active on Rennlist. Literally....over $15,000 worth of "redo" work and work to repair the damage these idiots had done. It took me over 10 weeks to find all the "landmines" and completely stupid things done. Just when I thought I found everything, I would take it for a drive and find 3-4 more things wrong. I asked the guys in the shop if it was ever going to be done....and they said "Only if you quit looking at it., driving it, and finding things wrong."

There's something I really wished....that the idiots who had no idea where the proper parts go would just put all the left over pieces in a baggy in the glove box. My Porsche parts orders for missing pieces has got to be the main reason the German economy is doing so well....I probably support more than half of the European Union!

What the hell do people and shops do with jump post covers?

I'm stunned....literally blown away when I lift a cover to the battery and there is actually a battery hold down bracket! Mary orders them by the handfulls.

Where in the world do all the brackets that hold the alternator duct to the inner fender go?

Rear undertrays? The brackets that bolt to the chassis to hold the rear undertrays?

It's endless!

Seriously, I can install every single correct screw, washer, and bolt on an undertray and send a car home. The owner will take it somewhere 5,000 miles later for an oil change close to home.....and when it comes back to me, it has every single correct screw, washer, and bolt missing. Phillips heads, dry wall screws, American size heads, completely missing screws....nothing original.

Is there a reward out there for the correct original hardware? Does it get sold on Ebay? Is it like socks that just vaporize? Do they take it out and throw it away as they remove it? Where does it go?

I admire you guys that can actually repair these cars correctly, at home. You are a very rare group!

FredR

Shawn,

What time was it when you left the garage?

Every time I try something for the first time invariably I say to myself "why am I inflicting this on myself". When I do it the second or nth time I say "what is going to screw me up this time?". Just the way it is.

The number of things I have found on my 928 baffles belief and you would not believe who was responsible for doing some of the things I have found and continue to find.

There are a few things I have chosen to omit but at least I usually put them in a jar for possible future reinstatement not least of which that array of bolted down brackets that hold the ignition leads firmly in place on the cam covers.

My "pet hate" is the two small bolts that hold the front belly pan in place, one has an 8mm head the other a 10mm head- I'll bet that is not how it left the factory. Also those connectors in the engine bay that carrying signals from both front wheel hubs are falling pieces on one side and non existant on the other and the ones at the hub itself are faring little better.
You may have seen my recent thread on the PSD flush- I took about 3 days and a zillion posts planning it and about an hour to do it such are the joys of being an amateur hack but when it was completed I felt very satisfied.

My favourite act of ineptitude is lowering the car from the axle stands and then driving off before torquing up the wheels- done that twice!

worf928

LOL. When I started doing work on OPCs, I would order and install all of the correct undertray hardware. That went on for a couple of years.

Then I got one back, exactly like you describe above: most, if not all, of my OE fasteners gone.

Then the little undertray screws got stupid expensive. Then they went NLA. Maybe they are back now; haven't checked in years.

Now, unless I know that the owner is OCD about their 928, I use similar-looking hardware not the precious OE bits. I have a handful of re-plated OE small captive-washer sheet-metal hex-head screws that only the OCD-cared-for 928s get. If I even suspect that it goes 'elsewhere' for oil changes it gets the not-quite-OE fasteners. They're cheap when I buy'em by the pound.

Once I got blamed for 'losing' an undertray. Uh uh. Not on your life. And, I got pictures of it on...

Landseer

Shawn, one answer, time for a 2nd 928.

jbrob007

Shawn, Me (a Cook), Mike (Violin for the Symphony) and Randy (Home Inspector) and some of the 928 Buckeye Landsharks started putting this car together when it was in 5,000 pieces. Not a mechanic among the bunch of us... We put it together slowly but surely, 3 steps forward & 2 steps back, with a lot of help from these RennList guys, and eventually got her DONE! You got this!!

Shawn Stanford

So! Things are looking up! After a night off for a PCA meeting, I went back out last night and drained off a couple quarts and got the oil return tube off, then rotated the motor to TDC, checked the timing marks on the cams and they're perfectly aligned!

The next step is to remove the flywheel inspection port cover and to put the flywheel locking tool into place. Of course, I haven't actually located the flywheel inspection port, and I don't actually have a flywheel locking tool...

But I'm beginning to think I can do this! Which, of course, means that something is going to go catastrophically wrong very soon...

Adk46

You might have trouble finding the inspection port cover if your car is like mine: some prior mechanic decided there was no need to re-install it 15 years prior (last belt change). Maybe not - no harm done. I installed a crude replacement. I won't need my lock for a few more years - want it?

extanker

some people should not be permitted to work on cars....eg... the person that was doing a brake job using the owners manual on how to remove the wheel.......he should turn the anti-theft wheel bolt into the dealer for safe keeping OR the guy doing his first oil change wanting to know the difference between a drain pan and oil pan.....he should have his engine compartment lid welded shut. these are just 2 examples of hundreds from this forum . i still get a kick outta the one where the guy aligned the oil and water caps in a cayman........yepper it over heated . If your wife/partner/mommie will not let you work on their 10 year old honda....there is a reason you do not have a man -card, on the flip side there are a few hard core po mechanics here that do know and help

Crumpler

Hey Shawn, I was following this while traveling this week.
The PCA meeting was what did it...if it is like my chapter, lol. Seeing all those that consider maintenance which wax to use... you are mechanical Adonis in comparison.

And more to point, don't confuse the learning process with being "bad". That's a mistake that I think some of us fall into.

Also, thanks for your service buddy.

Dave

Shawn Stanford

My region has some pretty handy folks in it. Our Social Chair is a Snap-On dealer (who's prepping one of his 3 Sharks for track use), the owner of 2nd Gear Performance is a member, one of our members is Rick Bolus, who advertises his business 'Weekend Rides' in Panorama, we've got a member who drives a gorgeous 356 coupe with 911 mechanicals grafted to it, etc., etc.

I fall somewhere in the middle of the pack: I'm not afraid to work on my cars, even though I'm not very good at it.

Of course, of the four P-Cars living in and around my garage, the 12 year-old Cayenne is the newest. So what do I have to lose by swinging my own wrenches?