WTB: 9201 Tensioning Tool
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From: Peoria, IL
WTB: 9201 Tensioning Tool
Earlier this fall I bought a new Arnnworx 920x. It's an impressive piece of kit, but in talking with Bruce his 928 R&D was done on an '83. Since the 16v is tensioned to 4.5 on the 9201, vs 5.0+.3 for the 32V, I'm concerned that using his values for the 920x are going to be low for 32V timing belt tension.
So, I'd like to get a hold of a 9201 to calibrate an equivalent 920x reading for the newer engines. Let me know if you're looking to get rid of one. Would also pay for a rental, since I'd just be re-selling after getting the 920x set up.
So, I'd like to get a hold of a 9201 to calibrate an equivalent 920x reading for the newer engines. Let me know if you're looking to get rid of one. Would also pay for a rental, since I'd just be re-selling after getting the 920x set up.
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Joined: Feb 2012
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From: Dorchester, ON
Not quite sure if you're looking to buy another one, but here's one for sale.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-e...ationFlag=true
Cheers, Phendriks
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-e...ationFlag=true
Cheers, Phendriks
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From: West Chester, PA
Jeremy,
I have one in the original box. It does not have the bar for testing (available from Porsche. Price for the 9201 tool is $300, shipping to Chicago included. I can send a pix via e-mail, PM me your e-mail address if you want a pix and are interested in buying.
Gary Knox
928 Owners Club Treasurer -2005-2017
I have one in the original box. It does not have the bar for testing (available from Porsche. Price for the 9201 tool is $300, shipping to Chicago included. I can send a pix via e-mail, PM me your e-mail address if you want a pix and are interested in buying.
Gary Knox
928 Owners Club Treasurer -2005-2017
Last edited by Gary Knox; Jan 4, 2016 at 10:18 AM.
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From: Boulder, CO
There is one on Pelican right now for $400 with some 944 tools included:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ion-tools.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ion-tools.html
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From: saratoga, ca
having done and measured both the 4.5 systems (square tooth) and the new system belt, (round tooth) i can tell, you that the 9201 is useless. the tension means nothing because it was designed for the new belt which is totally different thickness. so it throws off the reading . the only way to really do the early belt is with the twist tool. (kempf tool) . in otherwords, a 5.0 setting on the 9201 for a 83+ 928 would be an entirely different tension for the early belt .
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2002
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If Gary's offer does not work out, I have a Porsche boxed 9201 OEM tool that I would sell.
PM or e-mail me at: jmorton@morton-engr.com
I think I have one of the PorKen timing tools that I would sell a well.
Thanks
PM or e-mail me at: jmorton@morton-engr.com
I think I have one of the PorKen timing tools that I would sell a well.
Thanks
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Thread Starter
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From: Peoria, IL
And I bought Gary's 9201! Thanks, Gary.
Mark, are you sure about that? The way I understand the structure of the WSM is that the Kempf tool equivalent is for square tooth (Pg 15-15), the 9201 for HTD belt 16V engines at 4.5 (Pg 15-18b), and 5.0 on the 9201 for 32V engines (15-102).
Mark, are you sure about that? The way I understand the structure of the WSM is that the Kempf tool equivalent is for square tooth (Pg 15-15), the 9201 for HTD belt 16V engines at 4.5 (Pg 15-18b), and 5.0 on the 9201 for 32V engines (15-102).
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From: saratoga, ca
And I bought Gary's 9201! Thanks, Gary.
Mark, are you sure about that? The way I understand the structure of the WSM is that the Kempf tool equivalent is for square tooth (Pg 15-15), the 9201 for HTD belt 16V engines at 4.5 (Pg 15-18b), and 5.0 on the 9201 for 32V engines (15-102).
Mark, are you sure about that? The way I understand the structure of the WSM is that the Kempf tool equivalent is for square tooth (Pg 15-15), the 9201 for HTD belt 16V engines at 4.5 (Pg 15-18b), and 5.0 on the 9201 for 32V engines (15-102).
the point is, ive calibrated the Kempf tool to the 9201, and at setting 5, its pretty close to mid window on the kempf. BUT, you cant use the 9201 on the old motors without artificially making the belt thickness change.
what I did, was find a middle ground between the two . I don't remember the details, as it was a few years ago, but I did remember that it wasn't real clear on which would be the correct tension for the old buggers' belt
I will say, in no way is the tool equivalent. it cant be... the thickness is a major factor in the measurement of belt tension and is off when using the old style belt (square tooth)
I posted a bunch of details on the petty 5.0 euro engine build up..... Ill see if I can find it.....
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From: saratoga, ca
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...lems-here.html
the thinkness of the belt is integral to the accuracy of the belt. IF the belt tesion is supposed to be based on the 9201, then its going to tension out at near 2x the tension that the kempf tool measures.
in other words... use the kempf tool, and the tension will be 2.5 on the 9201. make it go 2x past the window, and the 9201 will measure about 4.0. Or, if you belive that the belt tension is an important part and the kempf tool is good, then , measure the 9201 on the RIBs of the belt (not the way you should use it, but its the only way to get a close reading from it) and then you will get a reading of near 4 on the 9201.
I am extremely good at this tool by the way, having used it for years on many engines.
my advice, don't use the 9201 on an old engine with square teeth... PERIOD.
Greg brown has been doing this for "years, since he wound his first engine", but he is dead nuts wrong here. very easy to prove. take your square belt and measure, as I did, the tension using 9201 vs the kempf tool. if you do, you will see, when you use the 9201, you will go way out side the window equivilant of the Kempf tool. so much so, its probably equvivinat to a setting of 7-8 on the 9201. (well over tensioned)..... So, again, use the kempf tool, or you will be replacing pulleys or waterpumps very soon.
Or, shim the belt so that its as thick as the round belt and do it that way. in the end, even that way, got the belt about 4.0 on the 9201. so, what I did, was tighten the belt at the max window and call it a day. its only slightly tight, and very loose on the 9201 (just under 4.0)....
calibrating it recently on a S4, its right on the money. mid to 2/3 window is 5.0 on the 9201. checked last week.
the thinkness of the belt is integral to the accuracy of the belt. IF the belt tesion is supposed to be based on the 9201, then its going to tension out at near 2x the tension that the kempf tool measures.
in other words... use the kempf tool, and the tension will be 2.5 on the 9201. make it go 2x past the window, and the 9201 will measure about 4.0. Or, if you belive that the belt tension is an important part and the kempf tool is good, then , measure the 9201 on the RIBs of the belt (not the way you should use it, but its the only way to get a close reading from it) and then you will get a reading of near 4 on the 9201.
I am extremely good at this tool by the way, having used it for years on many engines.
my advice, don't use the 9201 on an old engine with square teeth... PERIOD.
Greg brown has been doing this for "years, since he wound his first engine", but he is dead nuts wrong here. very easy to prove. take your square belt and measure, as I did, the tension using 9201 vs the kempf tool. if you do, you will see, when you use the 9201, you will go way out side the window equivilant of the Kempf tool. so much so, its probably equvivinat to a setting of 7-8 on the 9201. (well over tensioned)..... So, again, use the kempf tool, or you will be replacing pulleys or waterpumps very soon.
Or, shim the belt so that its as thick as the round belt and do it that way. in the end, even that way, got the belt about 4.0 on the 9201. so, what I did, was tighten the belt at the max window and call it a day. its only slightly tight, and very loose on the 9201 (just under 4.0)....
calibrating it recently on a S4, its right on the money. mid to 2/3 window is 5.0 on the 9201. checked last week.
Last edited by mark kibort; Jan 5, 2016 at 05:41 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Peoria, IL
This is for an S3, so no worries about using the 9201 on a square tooth belt. Also, having OCD, a direction of "mid to 2/3" makes me shiver. The cam gears are pristine after 74k indicated miles, so this belt tensioning is going to be on the nose to keep them that way.
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From: saratoga, ca
it's not that big of a deal... your belt will stretch in a few k miles and it will need about .2 to .5 of a turn to tighten it back up to 5.0 anyway.
for some reason, i thought you were doing the tension on a square toothed belt
i always do both just to make sure, and they are very close.. just the kemf tool needs a little more passed the middle of the window to be the same as the 5.0 setting on the 9201. make sure it has the calibration tool included.
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From: Anaheim
Note that the Factory Workshop Manual's pictures of how to tension a belt (and specification of what to adjust the belt to) with the 9201 tool, are clearly done with a square tooth belt....
Pages 15-18b to 15-18c, for those of you with a Workshop Manual....and the ability to look at pictures.
To get to the next step of understanding what Porsche was telling people, requires the ability to go beyond looking at pictures and actually needing to be able to read:
Note the update number and date on the 9201 instructions, at the bottom of the page.... VI, 1982. (The same update number and date as the instructions for the Kemph tool.) If you go to page 15-16 and read the page about the introduction of the round tooth belt, you will note that the update number is VII, 1983.
Reading ability now needs to progress to basic grade school logic:
The instructions for using the 9201 tool clearly pre-dates the introduction of the round tooth belt.....which is why the specification is 4.5, versus 5.0 for the later belt.
Pretty simple....if Greg Brown is wrong....so was Porsche.
Pages 15-18b to 15-18c, for those of you with a Workshop Manual....and the ability to look at pictures.
To get to the next step of understanding what Porsche was telling people, requires the ability to go beyond looking at pictures and actually needing to be able to read:
Note the update number and date on the 9201 instructions, at the bottom of the page.... VI, 1982. (The same update number and date as the instructions for the Kemph tool.) If you go to page 15-16 and read the page about the introduction of the round tooth belt, you will note that the update number is VII, 1983.
Reading ability now needs to progress to basic grade school logic:
The instructions for using the 9201 tool clearly pre-dates the introduction of the round tooth belt.....which is why the specification is 4.5, versus 5.0 for the later belt.
Pretty simple....if Greg Brown is wrong....so was Porsche.