decampos

Oh Lordy what have I done?

I have a 1983 928 S. Rear wheels kinda looked a little too tucked in at the rear. I called 928 International to enquire about spacers. They sold me original factory spacers and hubs with longer studs. Didn’t sound like too much work on the phone.

Six (6) hours later, I drive the car and there is this noise coming from the driver’s side rear. Doesn’t sound like typical bearing noise. At speed it’s like a kind of science-fiction sounding drone. Slowing down to parking speeds it’s like a slowed down human voice. (It's weird).

These are factory spacers and they’re not very wide at all. Could I have thrown the bearings out of whack or is this noise something else? What could I have screwed up installing the longer-stud-hubs and spacers? It was a straightforward job apart from insane brute force required in removing the hub nuts (literally 1000 lb⋅ft).

Any suggestions/advice very much appreciated.




... and broke the black extension bar.

GregBBRD

I have no idea how you did this. The outer bearing races stick onto the hubs almost 100% of the time. How did you remove the races and re-install them?

Irregardless, the force required to remove the old hubs and replace them with different hubs ruins the rear bearings virtually every single time.

You need new bearings. The hubs need to be pressed into the bearings....no pounding allowed!

decampos

Thanks for your reply Greg.

Well that's not a good sign.

I guess that's it then. Okay, thanks.

FredR

Sounds to me as though you replaced the entire enchilada [spelling?] and did not touch any wheel bearings at all- this suggests to me that you are relying on the bearings that came with the hub and by the sound of it one of the bearings is shot in the replacement hub you recevied- surely that makes more sense?

Feel as though I am missing something here but I doubt you could have done this job and replaced the bearings in 6 hours. As for the torque that is outrageous if correct- seems someone put the wheel nut on without applying anti-seize first. If you have not done this already I would undo that bolt [sounds as though you are going to have to anyway] and coat with copperslip or similar on both the threads and the spline. Was the half shaft difficult to get out as well?

Rgds

Fred

The Deputy

This is the way I read the repair also, no mention of replacing the bearing. Sounds like there was an issue with the new/used hubs to me.

Regardless, more work to get them strighten out.

Good luck.

Brian.

Mrmerlin

well this sux have you done any searching for spacer sizes/ fitting spacers on RL?

IMHO What you should have done was to use bolt on bolt on spacers ,
thus you do not disturb the hub flange or the bearings,.

before you do anything you need to figure out what wheel and tire your going to run,
then measure from the tire edge to the inside lip of the outer fender on both sides of the car,
use the number thats lower, then subtract 5 MM,
this is your target number for a spacer thickness.

This also begs the question, how did you remove the original flanges?
as the inner bearing races will come out with them.

Its a good guess that the new old parts also had the inner races from their bearings.

To fix I would fit new bearings ,and use your original hubs, and buy bolt on bolt on spacers,

NOTE bolt on spacers will not fit the hubs with the longer studs, as the nuts will run into the unthreaded shanks of the longer studs.

So your stuck with the spacer size and the longer studs as these are made for only one size spacer ,
and I will guess it is not enough to push the wheel out where it will fill out the wheel well

Jerry Feather

Decampos, can you describe just how you got the original hubs out, and can you show a picture of one or both of the ones you removed? Taking them out is really not very "straight forward" as you say.

decampos

Thanks for the replies. After reading them it’s clear that I screwed up. I’m going to take the car to the shop and pay through the nose as I don’t trust myself to remedy this.

I did and the bolt on ones which required no modifications piqued my interest at first but I was convinced that keeping everything original with factory spacers was the way to go.

So here’s what I did:



I replaced these short stub flanges (not hubs, sorry if I mislead with calling them that) with exactly the same things but with longer studs. It wasn’t difficult to remove them once I got the somewhat ‘snug’ hub nut off.




This is what I saw when I removed the flanges. I put some fresh grease in there, put the replacement flanges (with the longer studs in) then I bolted it all back together again. This is why I said it seemed straightforward. Thought I was good to go.

The passenger side is fine, the driver’s side is making the weird noise.

GregBBRD

Yes, you need to replace the bearings.

decampos

Thanks Greg. For the benefit of anyone in the mood to put themselves through this, how should this job be done if at all?

Also, is this whole longer studded flanges/spacers idea a pie-in-the-sky pipe dream? Should I just toss them out and not get any more ideas above my station? It certainly has subtly improved the look of the car but if it's a lost cause I'm happy to revert and forget all about it.
Thanks.

jcorenman

What happened is that the inner race came off with your old hub, and the new hub (with longer studs) came with its own inner race. ("Hub" is the correct term for the flange-thingy, what it fits into is the "hub carrier" or "rear upright").

The rear bearings are a double-row ball bearing, inside and outside rows of bearings each with inner and outer races and and a bunch of *****. (The inside and outside outer races are a single part). The outside inner race came out with the hub (both on your hub, and the replacement), the outside row of ***** are what you are looking at in the hub carrier.

So what you wound up with is a mismatched bearing-- outside inner race off one bearing, everything else off another. Bearings of that sort are matched sets-- the overall inside and outside dimensions will be controlled and precise, but what goes on in the middle depends on the manufacturer, day of week, lot number, etc. Parts of a bearing need to be kept together. (Kibort will disagree, but he is wrong).

So the first thing to try is to swap the old hubs (and inner races) back onto the car, and see if they run quietly. There is some (small) chance that the bearings (i.e. ***** and outer race) were not damaged. If so, you can drive the car while working up "Plan B". If still noisy then go straight to "Plan B", which is to change the bearings along with the hubs. In any case I would not let it go-- even if quiet you have likely shortened the bearing's remaining life and they were probably due anyway.

There are (at least) three ways to change rear bearings: The WSM procedure, using the B90 tool set (search for "B90" here), or whatever your local 928 specialist does. The WSM method requires a press, the B90 method is probably the simplest but you need to track down the tool: Dr. Bob owns the So Cal tool set but he moved to Oregon...

Alternately find someone locally who has done it, stock up on pizza and beer and throw a party.

And yes, I definitely think it is worthwhile. Assuming the ability to fit snow chains is not a high priority then the wheels should be moved out to line up properly with the fenders.

decampos

Thanks for your reply Jim (or Sue?). That’s really helpful and it’s given me a better understanding of the situation. I’m currently closing the deal on a set of replacement bearings and tomorrow I’m going to call around to see if anyone will touch the car.

I appreciate your opinion on whether to keep the spacers. So you think with a new set of bearings, the spacers won’t create a problem?

jcorenman

At this point it is just a normal rear wheel bearing job, no problem at all. And spacers (with longer studs) are fine.

FredR

Wow, make no wonder we were a bit confused- two bearings coming apart and then making a composite- anyone ever heard of this happening before as a matter of interest?

To the OP I would say just get yourself a new rear bearing and be done with it- as others have suggested do the job properly with a suitable press. I am still baffled as to how you even managed to get the bearings out like this- sounds as though your 1000ft lbs had a part t play in this somewhere along the line.

Do not give up on your aim- you have got this far so really you are only 1 step away from the objective.

My experience with rear wheel bearings is that they last a very long time indeed but if and when the grease seal goes they last no time whatsoever, you hear a strange noise and it is bearing replacement time. Thus doing what you are doing, taking a bearing of unknown provenance and putting it in the car as is is simply a crap shoot as to how long the bearing will last. If the replacement hubs came from the same car [and they probably did] then common sense suggests there is a pretty good chance both bearings have similar remaining half lives [i.e. the other one quite possibly has little remaining life in it].

Welcome to the club - do not be embarrassed in any way- most of us amateurs goof up regularly hence why this list is such a great resource to help one understand the possibilities and probabilities - the brighter contributors wear their goofs with pride- just remember good advice is given free and gratis but responsibility for accepting such goes with the owner!

Generally speaking any bad advice posted is generally crapped on pretty quickly - but in a nice polite way [in most cases]

Best wishes

Fred

Mrmerlin

if you will reread my post you now have more answers on what to do now,

I would use the original hubs with new bearings.and buy the correct sized bolt on spacers

NOTE the old inner races have to be cut off with a cut off wheel.

Reason being if you want to the most options for fitting different sizes of wheels then the bolt on spacers offer that for later fitment of other wheels.
As previously stated using the hubs with the longer studs makes them possibly unusable for fitting boltons ,
as the shanks of the longer studs will protrude through the bolt on spacer mounting holes ,
thus bolt on spacers wont be able to be bolted to the longer studded hubs and the longer studs will possible hit the wheels.
someone may suggest to use a bolt on spacer on top of the slide on spacer , I would not recommend that as most wheels will need a spacer of about 17 to to 22 MM for rear fitment
BUT all of these numbers can change based on your wheel package

good luck with your course of action.

In the future its best to search here or ask questions before you spend money