1978 5sp #107 just arrived - aka the restoration of Minerva
01-25-2016, 01:49 PM
#631
BC- I flattened the tweaked metal seal using the VW bearing pusher tool, and reassembled, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be responsible for flatbedding William home from wherever if/when it failed prematurely. Better part of valor is a new one- $120 is cheaper than a tow....
Tweaked one on left, frozen new one on the right:
Tweaked one on left, frozen new one on the right:
"Better part of Valor"... Lol.
I usually heat the hub and then cut the race. "TINK!" and its done.
01-25-2016, 01:50 PM
#632
01-25-2016, 02:01 PM
#633
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William can spray whatever he wants on the underside. Just not in my garage. 
Which begs the question- The trans tunnel repair needs some schutz on the underside. Since (my understanding is) the factory did not paint the undersides of the metallic finish cars, we're looking at the off-white undercoating. Any suggestions on the material to use? Perused the whole Wurth catalog (http://www.wurthusa.com/web/media/do...d4f57e08f69703)
and a bunch of threads on Pelican RE: early '70s 911 undercoating, and my bias is we want gray Wurth underbody seal. Probably need a schutz gun to do it right. But I can't seem to find anyone selling it in gray.
The color we need to match:
Which begs the question- The trans tunnel repair needs some schutz on the underside. Since (my understanding is) the factory did not paint the undersides of the metallic finish cars, we're looking at the off-white undercoating. Any suggestions on the material to use? Perused the whole Wurth catalog (http://www.wurthusa.com/web/media/do...d4f57e08f69703)
and a bunch of threads on Pelican RE: early '70s 911 undercoating, and my bias is we want gray Wurth underbody seal. Probably need a schutz gun to do it right. But I can't seem to find anyone selling it in gray.
The color we need to match:
01-25-2016, 02:11 PM
#635
Rennlist Member
Cosmoline was only applied to US and other oversea destinations, to inhibit corrosion while in transit. RoW received none.
It's not what I would consider 'original build' or 'factory', but I don't know how PCA concours handles it.
Re-applying cosmoline following a full resto would be like re-applying the white vinyl 'skins' added to body panels following a repaint.
It's not what I would consider 'original build' or 'factory', but I don't know how PCA concours handles it.
Re-applying cosmoline following a full resto would be like re-applying the white vinyl 'skins' added to body panels following a repaint.
01-25-2016, 02:30 PM
#637
Former Sponsor
I said the same thing William assures me that's the cover that was on the car when he bought Minerva. Too wavy so he got a replacement for painting.
More assembly today:
Front and rear shocks:
Started reassembling CV joints- the movement is kind of mesmerizing:
Annotated pic of CV joint orientations so you don't end up with a 'locked' ball hub:
I also replaced all the replaceable bushings in the rear lower control arms- Lots of work moving the carriage up and down to set up for each press maneuver.
Pushing out camber eccentric bushing- VW407 and VW459/2:
Pushing new one in- directly with the press head, to minimize getting off-axis and flinging a press tool across the garage (I'm usually hiding 'in-line' with the control arm while operating the press....)
The new bushing has some sort of schmutz on it- crinkles up and makes a mess as you're pressing:
Pushing out rear shock pin metal bushings first- VW408a:
Then jury rigging to push out the shock pin bushing rubber- 32 mm socket into VW459/2:
Comparing used and new shock pin bushings- I was surprised to find that the rubber on the new bushings is actually firmer than the old. While I think it was likely overkill to replace these bushings (they were all still centered in their openings) I do wonder whether the new ones will make the suspension feel 'tighter' given less play in the rubber (?) Dunno, total WAG.
Installing shock pin bushings- WSM calls for VW455 and VW459/2, but don't really need a tool, just the press:
Done and ready to install:
Next to-do was rear wheel bearings- date codes on hub carriers, for posterity:
So- I baked the hub carriers, froze the bearings, got everything set up on the press, remembered the e-brake brackets, got the circlips ready to re-install before the hubs, just forgot one little thing....
What's wrong with this picture?
No rear wheel hub needs two outer races......
What kills me is that I'd bought a gear puller/separator with the press, to remove the old outer races, just totally flaked as I was in a hurry to get the cold bearing into the hot carrier. $100 mistake- trashed a brand new wheel bearing.
Separator works well on the press:
William assures me that's the cover that was on the car when he bought Minerva. Too wavy so he got a replacement for painting. More assembly today:
Front and rear shocks:
Started reassembling CV joints- the movement is kind of mesmerizing:
Annotated pic of CV joint orientations so you don't end up with a 'locked' ball hub:
I also replaced all the replaceable bushings in the rear lower control arms- Lots of work moving the carriage up and down to set up for each press maneuver.
Pushing out camber eccentric bushing- VW407 and VW459/2:
Pushing new one in- directly with the press head, to minimize getting off-axis and flinging a press tool across the garage (I'm usually hiding 'in-line' with the control arm while operating the press....)
The new bushing has some sort of schmutz on it- crinkles up and makes a mess as you're pressing:
Pushing out rear shock pin metal bushings first- VW408a:
Then jury rigging to push out the shock pin bushing rubber- 32 mm socket into VW459/2:
Comparing used and new shock pin bushings- I was surprised to find that the rubber on the new bushings is actually firmer than the old. While I think it was likely overkill to replace these bushings (they were all still centered in their openings) I do wonder whether the new ones will make the suspension feel 'tighter' given less play in the rubber (?) Dunno, total WAG.
Installing shock pin bushings- WSM calls for VW455 and VW459/2, but don't really need a tool, just the press:
Done and ready to install:
Next to-do was rear wheel bearings- date codes on hub carriers, for posterity:
So- I baked the hub carriers, froze the bearings, got everything set up on the press, remembered the e-brake brackets, got the circlips ready to re-install before the hubs, just forgot one little thing....
What's wrong with this picture?
No rear wheel hub needs two outer races......
What kills me is that I'd bought a gear puller/separator with the press, to remove the old outer races, just totally flaked as I was in a hurry to get the cold bearing into the hot carrier. $100 mistake- trashed a brand new wheel bearing.
Separator works well on the press:
Avoid pressing the rear hubs into the bearings. The pressure required has to be borne by the actual wheel bearings ***** themselves. The point contact of the ***** creates dents in the bearing races making them noisy from the very beginning or ruining them completely.
I've replaced more than just a couple sets of brand new ruined wheel bearings...."I've got this noise in the rear, which I was told was wheel bearings, so I replaced them/had them replaced and the noise is still there."
The best way to install the hubs is to "draw" them in with a huge bolt, nut, and appropriate washers. Using this method, all of the force required to "draw" the hubs in is borne by the inner races of the wheel bearings.....not by the ***** themselves.
01-25-2016, 02:43 PM
#638
Former Sponsor
BC- I flattened the tweaked metal seal using the VW bearing pusher tool, and reassembled, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be responsible for flatbedding William home from wherever if/when it failed prematurely. Better part of valor is a new one- $120 is cheaper than a tow....
Tweaked one on left, frozen new one on the right:
Tweaked one on left, frozen new one on the right:
The engineer that told me this said that the heat treating of the bearing was compromised at temperatures high enough to turn it blue.
01-25-2016, 02:45 PM
#639
Is that box for that bearing? Part number looks strange.
01-25-2016, 03:02 PM
#640
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Greg- bad angle on the front shocks, those are the concave washers, they just look flat. I showed up in your shop in about 2008 with my GT front springs and you swapped out my gamey washers with shiny shiny plated ones gratis. Set the hook for a spiraling addiction to cad plating. Better pic later!
Thanks for the pointer on the wheel bearings, keep my 'ruined' tally down to one.... I went a little crazy with the VW press pieces and followed the WSM pic (below), so the inner face of the hub carrier sits on the 441 piece, and pushed in with 415a, which is 60 mm in diameter. Will have to see where it 'pushes' on the bearing face.
So if one had a thick bigass washer that was just smaller than the ID of the hub cavity, could you safely press them in since the load would be on the outer case of the bearing?
Better pic later!Thanks for the pointer on the wheel bearings, keep my 'ruined' tally down to one.... I went a little crazy with the VW press pieces and followed the WSM pic (below), so the inner face of the hub carrier sits on the 441 piece, and pushed in with 415a, which is 60 mm in diameter. Will have to see where it 'pushes' on the bearing face.
So if one had a thick bigass washer that was just smaller than the ID of the hub cavity, could you safely press them in since the load would be on the outer case of the bearing?
01-25-2016, 03:04 PM
#641
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The bearing colors are a trick of the light- the 'blue' one on the left was new, it went into the hub and then back out. The one on the right is whiter 'cause it's covered in frost from having come out of the freezer for the picture.
That's the box the frosty bearing was in, I think there was a supercession on the part number (?)
That's the box the frosty bearing was in, I think there was a supercession on the part number (?)
01-25-2016, 03:47 PM
#642
I use another inner race of the bearing under the hub to hold that inner/inner race as I push in the hub (Which I also freeze to make it easier)
That seems to create the same type of support, no?
That seems to create the same type of support, no?
01-25-2016, 04:16 PM
#643
Former Sponsor
Greg- bad angle on the front shocks, those are the concave washers, they just look flat. I showed up in your shop in about 2008 with my GT front springs and you swapped out my gamey washers with shiny shiny plated ones gratis. Set the hook for a spiraling addiction to cad plating. Better pic later!
Thanks for the pointer on the wheel bearings, keep my 'ruined' tally down to one.... I went a little crazy with the VW press pieces and followed the WSM pic (below), so the inner face of the hub carrier sits on the 441 piece, and pushed in with 415a, which is 60 mm in diameter. Will have to see where it 'pushes' on the bearing face.
So if one had a thick bigass washer that was just smaller than the ID of the hub cavity, could you safely press them in since the load would be on the outer case of the bearing?
Better pic later!Thanks for the pointer on the wheel bearings, keep my 'ruined' tally down to one.... I went a little crazy with the VW press pieces and followed the WSM pic (below), so the inner face of the hub carrier sits on the 441 piece, and pushed in with 415a, which is 60 mm in diameter. Will have to see where it 'pushes' on the bearing face.
So if one had a thick bigass washer that was just smaller than the ID of the hub cavity, could you safely press them in since the load would be on the outer case of the bearing?
You need to support the inner races, if you are going to press the hubs in. If you bought all of the VW press tools, you are probably doing it correctly.
Sorry for interfering on all three things. I'll not follow along and bother you.....you clearly have it under control!
(Brendon does it correctly, below, although it is a cluster f^ck to do, with pieces that all need to be aligned properly so that you don't mistakenly press on the inner bearing seal.)
The simple, most foolproof, and least awkward way is to draw the hubs in with a giant bolt and washers. Plus that, a bolt allows one to install the hubs with the rear suspension carrier on the vehicle (assuming one can get the old bearing out and the new bearing installed.
I've got a question: How did you decide which style seal to face inward and which to face outward? (One side of these bearings has a Viton seal and the other side has a steel seal, for those of you that don't have a bearing sitting in front of them.)
Last edited by GregBBRD; 01-25-2016 at 04:36 PM.
01-25-2016, 04:43 PM
#644
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Nah, totally not under control- I'm just apeing the WSM, but if pressing is not kosher and risks flat-spotting the *****, then am happy to learn better practices!
The one pic in the WSM that (I think) shows the bearing in situ looks like the Viton seal faces inward, so I installed with the steel seal outward. So the steel seal gets blown out when the hub Had a 50/50 shot of getting it right.....
Here's the pics of the ruined bearing- steel seal is missing in the first pic, second is the outer race set back in place, third is with the steel seal pressed back in, but you can see it doesn't fit flush any longer...
In two pieces:
Back in place:
Took the metal seal, re-flattened and pushed seat the seal back in its groove.
https://webfiles.uci.edu/redwards/pu...%201-24-16.jpg
The one pic in the WSM that (I think) shows the bearing in situ looks like the Viton seal faces inward, so I installed with the steel seal outward. So the steel seal gets blown out when the hub Had a 50/50 shot of getting it right.....
Here's the pics of the ruined bearing- steel seal is missing in the first pic, second is the outer race set back in place, third is with the steel seal pressed back in, but you can see it doesn't fit flush any longer...
In two pieces:
Back in place:
Took the metal seal, re-flattened and pushed seat the seal back in its groove.
https://webfiles.uci.edu/redwards/pu...%201-24-16.jpg
01-25-2016, 04:52 PM
#645
Sorry for interfering on all three things. I'll not follow along and bother you.....you clearly have it under control!
(Brendon does it correctly, below, although it is a cluster f^ck to do, with pieces that all need to be aligned properly so that you don't mistakenly press on the inner bearing seal.)
I've got a question: How did you decide which style seal to face inward and which to face outward? (One side of these bearings has a Viton seal and the other side has a steel seal, for those of you that don't have a bearing sitting in front of them.)
The way I do the bearings is a cluster. I may try the bolt. Aligning multiple pices while things are one temperature or another is a hassle, and there is a dent in the 78's fender to prove that this is still dangerous work as well. I moved the press outside (and it is now destroyed by weather, even in SD) to solve the first problem. The second is just mitigated by "try and be safe".
Which way is the right way? I think I have put the viton facing in, thinking it is more protected and will see less heat.