Engine Fire
09-08-2015, 03:16 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
Given that Ted replaced the fuel lines, I'm thinking this could have been caused by a leaking injector (plastic to metal) body seam.
I've seen them do it, especially if they are original given the age and many heat cycles.
The pressure would have dropped off after the fuel rail pressure drained off.
And I concur w/ Gary K, I always do the same, heat is a known killer.
"Whenever I return home from driving my 928's, or any other German 'sports' car, I immediately open the hood to let the heat dissipate faster. I leave it open until I'm going to drive the car again.".
I've seen them do it, especially if they are original given the age and many heat cycles.
The pressure would have dropped off after the fuel rail pressure drained off.
And I concur w/ Gary K, I always do the same, heat is a known killer.
"Whenever I return home from driving my 928's, or any other German 'sports' car, I immediately open the hood to let the heat dissipate faster. I leave it open until I'm going to drive the car again.".
09-08-2015, 04:19 PM
#77
Former Sponsor
Now that I have had time to look at things I agree. From what I can see it was definitely fuel. It looks like the ignition happened at the driver side distributor, so my thoughts are a connection at the driver side of the front fuel line. The fuel line itself is not compromised or blistered at all, but a tiny leak over a couple hours must have filled the engine compartment with fuel vapor.
I do feel lucky that it happened where it did, outside my garage with something nearby to extinguish. If it happened somewhere where I was dependent on 911 there would be nothing left of the car. A friend of my dad's was on vacation with a pickup pulling a 5th wheel trailer out west in the mountains. A fuel line ruptured and sprayed fuel on the catalytic converter and ignited while driving down the road in the middle of nowhere. When it was done all he had was himself, his wife, the dog and the shirts on their back. Everything else burned to the ground.
I do feel lucky that it happened where it did, outside my garage with something nearby to extinguish. If it happened somewhere where I was dependent on 911 there would be nothing left of the car. A friend of my dad's was on vacation with a pickup pulling a 5th wheel trailer out west in the mountains. A fuel line ruptured and sprayed fuel on the catalytic converter and ignited while driving down the road in the middle of nowhere. When it was done all he had was himself, his wife, the dog and the shirts on their back. Everything else burned to the ground.
I'd investigate the "U" shaped hose between the rear damper and the fuel regulator.....or the return hose from the regulator to the fuel cooler.
09-08-2015, 04:34 PM
#79
Former Sponsor
I've quit being emotional about this problem and now just tell it as simply as I can:
If you can't afford to buy the two factory hoses that are still available and the two hoses that I make (which are NLA from Porsche), leave the original factory plastic lines alone.....do not touch them or flex them. These hoses are far superior to the "rubber fuel hose with clamps" solution....even though they are 30 years old and sometimes very brittle.
If you need to replace the fuel pressure dampers or regulator, you really need to replace the hoses associated with those items......and not with rubber fuel line and clamps. If rubber fuel lines and clamps are all you can afford (if this is the case, you sure shouldn't own a 928), leave the leaking regulators and dampers in place and the fuel lines untouched....at least the fuel ends up in the intake manifold and not all over the top of the engine.
09-08-2015, 04:57 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
I am planning on removing the top of my engine manifold and cam covers for refurbish I have already replaced the curved hose with fuel inj rated hose. Pm me on cost of your hose replacements. Luv4jags@hotmail.,com 1985 928 S 5 speed
09-08-2015, 05:46 PM
#81
Three Wheelin'
Cosmo, sorry for your loss. If you are planning to rebuild I have a 95% complete used front harness that I purchased from another Rennlister last year to rebuild (its missing the Oil PS connections which you already have). I also bought most of the new wires also. It is in Florida and I am here until Saturday. I can brink it back to Ont if you want it. Let me know.
09-08-2015, 06:18 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
If the car was sitting in your driveway, like it is in your picture, that looks like the nose is downhill. Any fuel leakage from the rear (the most likely source) would run down the valley between the heads to the front. The "main heat" looks like it was on the front side.....just in front of the intake manifold (note the distortion/warping of the suspension cross brace.)
I'd investigate the "U" shaped hose between the rear damper and the fuel regulator.....or the return hose from the regulator to the fuel cooler.
I'd investigate the "U" shaped hose between the rear damper and the fuel regulator.....or the return hose from the regulator to the fuel cooler.
The leak had to be at the front Greg. Absolutely no fire damage near the back or under the intake. If the leak happened back there the fire would have followed the fuel back to the source. The things that burned the worst was the intake tubes and the hood pad and that made a huge mess on everything else.
I heard from the adjuster today and looks like we are at the beginning stages of working out a deal and me keeping the car. Once I have that hammered out I will activate the fuel pump and post where the leak was.
09-08-2015, 07:21 PM
#84
Former Sponsor
The leak had to be at the front Greg. Absolutely no fire damage near the back or under the intake. If the leak happened back there the fire would have followed the fuel back to the source. The things that burned the worst was the intake tubes and the hood pad and that made a huge mess on everything else.
I heard from the adjuster today and looks like we are at the beginning stages of working out a deal and me keeping the car. Once I have that hammered out I will activate the fuel pump and post where the leak was.
I heard from the adjuster today and looks like we are at the beginning stages of working out a deal and me keeping the car. Once I have that hammered out I will activate the fuel pump and post where the leak was.
Being in the Porsche repair business, I've personally had several fuel fires, over the years.....and they are not much fun!
There's three things I have learned.
One is that gasoline burns very quickly. Two is that a fire supplied with gasoline will grow large very rapidly.
....And three...... Halon will put out a large fuel fire with one squirt!
Amazing stuff for this application!
09-08-2015, 09:52 PM
#85
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,427
Received 1,603 Likes
on
1,047 Posts
The consensus is fuel hose leak. But, to follow-up on the ABS power lead...
Right. We could just put fuses everywhere. Not. Just doesn't make sense.
Outside of body damage and if properly routed and protected that line is no worse than the rest of the harness from the battery to the starter and from there to the front-main engine harness.
Below is a picture of the cover. I suspect that lots, if not most, have never seen one.
The second picture is a close-up of the harness clip that is supposed to secure the ABS line to the left-side belt cover. (That's why there's a little hole in the cover.) From there it should route behind the power steering reservoir console. It's a bit of a pain to route, but any other route may end up with interference from something.
None of that - cover, clip, or routing - is right, 9 times out of 10, when I get a 928 for a t-belt job.
Outside of body damage and if properly routed and protected that line is no worse than the rest of the harness from the battery to the starter and from there to the front-main engine harness.
The second picture is a close-up of the harness clip that is supposed to secure the ABS line to the left-side belt cover. (That's why there's a little hole in the cover.) From there it should route behind the power steering reservoir console. It's a bit of a pain to route, but any other route may end up with interference from something.
None of that - cover, clip, or routing - is right, 9 times out of 10, when I get a 928 for a t-belt job.
09-08-2015, 10:10 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
I seem to remember that cover over my ABS cable but just to make sure Im heading out to the garage 
its there, all good.
its there, all good.
Last edited by the flyin' scotsman; 09-08-2015 at 10:20 PM. Reason: adding more info
09-08-2015, 11:22 PM
#88
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
09-15-2015, 01:52 PM
#89
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So found the leak. injector on driver side second from the front popped out of the rail. The clip was on upside down. So for those who think the clips aren't needed, here's proof that they are!
I can't believe the injector itself and the harness isn't burnt.
I can't believe the injector itself and the harness isn't burnt.
09-15-2015, 02:04 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
I have always reckoned those clips are central to fuel system integrity and the most likely cause of a leak and subsequent fire. Every time I remove my fuel rail I take great care to ensure those clips are seated correctly.
Interesting how the fire spread the way it did but with some 45 psig driving it no real surprise it spread the way it. You must have reacted very sharpish to limit the damage you sustained-probably far quicker than you realise I suspect.
Let's hope you get a good result and have everything spick and span soon.
Rgds
Fred
Interesting how the fire spread the way it did but with some 45 psig driving it no real surprise it spread the way it. You must have reacted very sharpish to limit the damage you sustained-probably far quicker than you realise I suspect.
Let's hope you get a good result and have everything spick and span soon.
Rgds
Fred
