wpgshark

Having done one.

It's shocking how quickly the bits of plastic and rubber add up, when I did it I stopped adding up about half way through, kept the bills in case I ever have to but it very quickly hits you in the gut.

Look at the price of a top end refresh, add the front stuff, the ignition wires, the air intakes and all of the plastic bits and you'll be north of $4K in a heart beat.

If you're not doing it yourself, and you're time is not worth nothing, or better yet has negative value, define the work as therapy that you're not paying for (stolen from some other lister), tough to make an economic justification for the repair.

However I doubt that there are too many saves that could be justified on their economics, so it is rarely about that. Just like those people out protecting endangered species, saves are about keeping the car on the road for the future.

JMHO

Cosmo Kramer

The only thing it has going for it is the damage is only forward from the oil filler neck. The injectors and harness appear to have survived. Most of the burned mess is from the intake tubes and hood pad. But like you say, once you start peeling things back you can really start to find things.

marine928

My insurance payout is on it's 2nd supplement, $3871.00 - $1000.00 deductable.

1. 2871.00 initial for engine breakdown obvious parts.
2. 1944.00 1st supplement
3. 2619.00 2nd supplement

working on 3rd supplement currently. Many OEM parts are NLA or only available from Germany. American Collectors has been great and have no problem with OEM or getting parts shipped from the Motherland.

Roger has been a great help also.

marine928

Cosmo, that damage is so much more extensive than mine I really think you are being way too optimistic. All I can say is expect the worse and hope for the best.

Alan

You need a decent size extinguisher - small size is not really a great idea here - if you run out before the fire is out your car is still toast.

Beyond having an extinguisher - you need a way to deploy it under the hood without opening the hood (which can be very dangerous for you with a fuel fire - and might just make the fire much worse).

Ideally a Halon (or Halotron or maybe CO2) extinguisher will work better than a cheap dry powder version, which not only creates a huge cleanup mess of its own, but also only works well on what you directly spray it on. Halon meanwhile will distribute to areas you can't even see or reach.

I have 2 extinguishers in my car: old school Halon for me and a small dry powder extinguisher for anyone else. Halon lives either right in front of the passenger seat, or behind the passenger seat on 2 different BK quick release mounts. Plumbing reachable from the driver's seat goes directly into the engine compartment - jets forward alongside the fuel rails from the bulkhead.

My motivation years ago were a few crispy pictures - some rather worse looking than these. Not actually so hard to do, but for halon and the Q-R mounts not so cheap either.

OP Sorry for your loss here - hard to tell how bad it will really be - but recoverable I think for someone with lots of new small parts... lots of work though. Wonder how much quicker you could have had it out with an extinguisher to hand?

Alan

marine928

I think that regardless of the extinguisher, how soon the fire is discovered and where you are at that given time, is everything. Cosmo, how much time elapsed from your engine start to your discovery of the fire and putting it out.? Also, you said "bang" it started on fire, did you hear a bang or was that just a descriptive phrase.

Lon

Alan

It's an important factor for sure and an engine fire detection system wouldn't be a bad idea. You can imagine an engine fire while moving might not be so obvious initially (all smoke & smells behind you) but actually fires on the move seem to be quite rare - presumably all combustibles are also diluted and excavated quickly too... until you stop.

Anyway though, once you do discover it (and esp. if you are out on the highway) having an effective extinguisher immediately to hand makes the difference between taking quick action and possibly just having a spectator role while you car burns to the ground. Being at home near the garage/hose saved this one from being much worse...

Alan

Cosmo Kramer

Yes there was an explosion under the hood. The car started and was idling for about 5 seconds. Then the explosion, followed by flames shooting out either side of the hood. I immediately shut it off, got out of the car and grabbed the hose. I would say the time from the explosion to getting water on it was 3-4 minutes.

I have looked at the car more closely it wasn't power steering or a/c. I believe there was a buildup of fuel vapor under the hood that was ignited by the driver side distributor. Must have been a leak somewhere that was minuscule but enough that after 2 hrs sitting it accumulated enough vapor to ignite on a hot day.

Daniel5691

Lon,

So sorry to hear about your excitement, too....
You mentioned a difference of opinion concerning the cause of your fire?
Could you please share some details?
Thanks

Dan

marine928

Bingo! That's exactly what happened to me. The bang ignited the vapor and my damage was from the instantaneous fireball in the compartment. I was told that in a millisecond the temp went to 700 plus degrees.
The leak was from a small pin hole/cut around the clamp area in the high pressure line that runs along the passenger side fender into the front of the intake. The famous u shaped hose. There was one blister on the hose at the clamp where the fire had traveled up the fuel stream and completely roasted that area about 1/4 to 1/2 diameter.
This hose had been repaired using the new "hose clamp" method approximately 1 year ago.
Needles to say, OEM is being used to replace it.

marine928

Daniel, the insurance company thought that the fire started in the electrical system. Specifically the a/c area. Their adjuster was basing it on the amount of burned wires in the area. They did not pay attention to anything else because the fuel lines looked new. Also they did not see the small burnt blister which was on the underside of the line.
Took two visits and the computer simulation to show them the error of their ways.

Lon

Cosmo Kramer

On mine I suspect the front hose that connects the fuel rails at the front. No blister on mine at all and no indication of any leak but based on the way it ignited I can't see how anything else could have caused it. Mine is also the barrier hose with EFI clamps.

marine928

Probably right, I had no damage to the driver side air intake. My passenger side was melted in two places, as was the wiring below it, the oil dip stick, oil filler cap and knock sensors. The bearing on the underside of the intake controlling the flappy inside was also seized due to the heat. ( only available in Germany)
I will have a list along with pics this evening so that everyone can get a better idea of just how much "hidden" damage can be done.

James Bailey

The hidden damage and supplements are the reason why most insurance companies total a car when the initial estimate for repairs is 50 percent of what they believe is the value.

bureau13

Alan, so if I'm imagining this correctly, you have put a tube or something you can reach from the driver's seat that you can spray the Halon extinguisher in, that travels through the firewall to the engine compartment? Is there a write-up on this somewhere? That sounds very cool.

I am getting more and more pleased that I decided to have my fuel lines replaced with Greg's kit before I ever got the car. The PO said the lines all looked fine externally, but when he replaced them for me, the underside of one had some issues...