1988 Cassisrot S4 for sale... partial affiliation
07-19-2015, 03:17 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
But what about that idle issue?
That is being sorted out as we speak... pretty much ruled out MAF interference, since it runs normally beyond idle.
ISV was potentially disturbed during intake gasket replacement (ISV less than 2 years old, genuine Porsche product)..
Smoke testing for probable vacuum leak resulting from same repair.
I think there was a transmission shifting issue as well.
No, that was just an uniformed buyer's knee jerk reaction to being told how the 4-speed automatic was designed to function. As can be verified in other threads here on RL -and in the owners' manual- when the trans is in 'D' -it starts in 2nd gear (EPA reasons). When you mash the loud pedal -it drops into 1st -with upshifts at predesignated shift points... again, as designed. HOWEVER, it is infinitely more fun to manually shift it yourself: place shifter in 2nd and it will start in 1st -and stay there until the shift point to 2nd (or bump to 3rd & back down to 2nd, and control it yourself).
Were I in the market I'd be far more worried about those unknowns than the rather typical cosmetic defects that you've shown. Maybe they really are simple fixes, in which case the owner should get them corrected in order to get what the car is worth, no? My concern is that they might not be simple fixes. I am not expert enough to tell from the description that they are easily and cheaply corrected.
That is being sorted out as we speak... pretty much ruled out MAF interference, since it runs normally beyond idle.
ISV was potentially disturbed during intake gasket replacement (ISV less than 2 years old, genuine Porsche product)..
Smoke testing for probable vacuum leak resulting from same repair.
I think there was a transmission shifting issue as well.
No, that was just an uniformed buyer's knee jerk reaction to being told how the 4-speed automatic was designed to function. As can be verified in other threads here on RL -and in the owners' manual- when the trans is in 'D' -it starts in 2nd gear (EPA reasons). When you mash the loud pedal -it drops into 1st -with upshifts at predesignated shift points... again, as designed. HOWEVER, it is infinitely more fun to manually shift it yourself: place shifter in 2nd and it will start in 1st -and stay there until the shift point to 2nd (or bump to 3rd & back down to 2nd, and control it yourself).
Were I in the market I'd be far more worried about those unknowns than the rather typical cosmetic defects that you've shown. Maybe they really are simple fixes, in which case the owner should get them corrected in order to get what the car is worth, no? My concern is that they might not be simple fixes. I am not expert enough to tell from the description that they are easily and cheaply corrected.
The other thread was deteriorating to a shouting match of post-loss remorse and name calling. In this thread, I will be looking for a mature, constructive discussion about this rare car... and I will strive to behave in the same manner...
...with all due respect.
07-19-2015, 03:20 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Sorry...my intent was not to be alarmist in any way. It's just that those two "issues" were the ones that would bother me, and no one was talking about them. I AM "observing and learning," which is why I asked that they be included in the discussion. I personally hope that the car is indeed in need of very little and goes to a great Rennlister home so we can all see it's progress...it is definitely rare and beautiful.
07-19-2015, 03:36 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sorry...my intent was not to be alarmist in any way. It's just that those two "issues" were the ones that would bother me, and no one was talking about them. I AM "observing and learning," which is why I asked that they be included in the discussion. I personally hope that the car is indeed in need of very little and goes to a great Rennlister home so we can all see it's progress...it is definitely rare and beautiful.
BTW, I moved up from Tampa Bay in 1999 and have missed Florida ever since -you lucky bastage!
07-19-2015, 03:42 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As stated prior, I also have had my hands on this car, and agree with Martin. Check tbf, if good, then there should be no issue....she runs fantastic with a little throttle, and sounds like a beast.....I want it...cant afford it....maybe I should sell my other house....hmmmm, no, wife would not be on board....anyway, its lovely.
J/K Ron... you have 2 other 928 babies needing your love & attention already -and I know you can't wait to have them both road worthy (neither can I)!
All the best my friend... now back to 928 wrenching!
07-19-2015, 10:49 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
07-19-2015, 11:29 PM
#21
4th Gear
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Which brings me to the other major concern... You mention that this is a low mileage car in the original post, yet the other thread left me with the impression that the odometer is broken AND carfax showed some discrepancy (per the "newbie"). IMHO, this is a big deal that also needs to be cleared up.
BTW, there are quite a few nice 928s on the market or otherwise available right now. It's a really nice time to be shopping
07-20-2015, 12:18 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I didn't find anything alarmist about Jeff's question- actually, it's good that he asked and it's nice to see some light shed on what I believe was a major question left unanswered from the other thread....
'Alarmist' was in reference to the non-issue of how the 4-speed automatic transmission in the 928 (designed by Mercedes Benz, BTW) is designed to operate. An interested party that did not know that would undoubtedly be ALARMED at the thought of $$$ thousands to fix a broken trans -that isn't broken. Understand the comment now?
Which brings me to the other major concern... You mention that this is a low mileage car in the original post, yet the other thread left me with the impression that the odometer is broken AND carfax showed some discrepancy (per the "newbie"). IMHO, this is a big deal that also needs to be cleared up.
Yes... low mileage compared to most 27-year old vehicles... mine included (~230k miles). In the 10-years of documented maintenance history is a receipt showing the mileage when the odometer gear broke. The technician didn't realize the reset button CAN NOT be pressed while the car is in motion -it shatters the plastic gear. [FAQ thread] So, when the car was picked up in March of this year, the odometer was broken. Approximately 500-600 miles have elapsed since then. The car is guaranteed to be below 96k miles.
BTW, CarFax is only as good as the inspection stations or repair facilities are at actually recording and/or reporting the mileage. I have personally seen some technicians simply put 111111 to clear that step and go on... on a brand new car. Not a rampant procedure, but it does happen.
BTW, there are quite a few nice 928s on the market or otherwise available right now. It's a really nice time to be shopping
'Alarmist' was in reference to the non-issue of how the 4-speed automatic transmission in the 928 (designed by Mercedes Benz, BTW) is designed to operate. An interested party that did not know that would undoubtedly be ALARMED at the thought of $$$ thousands to fix a broken trans -that isn't broken. Understand the comment now?
Which brings me to the other major concern... You mention that this is a low mileage car in the original post, yet the other thread left me with the impression that the odometer is broken AND carfax showed some discrepancy (per the "newbie"). IMHO, this is a big deal that also needs to be cleared up.
Yes... low mileage compared to most 27-year old vehicles... mine included (~230k miles). In the 10-years of documented maintenance history is a receipt showing the mileage when the odometer gear broke. The technician didn't realize the reset button CAN NOT be pressed while the car is in motion -it shatters the plastic gear. [FAQ thread] So, when the car was picked up in March of this year, the odometer was broken. Approximately 500-600 miles have elapsed since then. The car is guaranteed to be below 96k miles.
BTW, CarFax is only as good as the inspection stations or repair facilities are at actually recording and/or reporting the mileage. I have personally seen some technicians simply put 111111 to clear that step and go on... on a brand new car. Not a rampant procedure, but it does happen.
BTW, there are quite a few nice 928s on the market or otherwise available right now. It's a really nice time to be shopping
The threads here on RennList are available to all to peruse and take notes for when that purchase opportunity arrives!
07-20-2015, 09:10 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
OK, it's Sunday afternoon and hotter than hell here in central VA (now FredR, be calm...) so instead of rewiring barn fans or working on my 928 brakes here I am on RL, giving the appearance to SWMBO that I am doing something worthwhile, but in reality I am pondering this thread for the n+1 time. I'll stick to my earlier observations about buyer and seller (which doctor bob amplified with great clarity), but now I am thinking like a salesman (which I was for 30 years) and the opportunity I see here is to have the TBF booger put to rest with a simple and inexpensive measurement of end play. If the test is negative (yep, seeing too many doctors), I would raise the damn price! (Yep, probably too many PBR's this afternoon - for hydration of course - as well.) If TBF is not in the picture, someone is going to end up with a prize, I think.
It was 48C yesterday afternoon over here and in the evening we had a storm with huge winds. It must be 50C+ in the desert- hottest I have ever seen on the oilfields was 57C in the shade- only there is no shade!
-In these temps I leave the 928 in the car port until it cools off a bit in the evening.I fully agree with your post- the good work Barry has done, plus his indication that the car runs well if supported by a crank end float reading of 0.2mm would be tantamount to a free pre-purchase inspection and that is essential on a 928.
If anyone expects a 27 year old car to have immaculate original paint, whereas not impossible, it would probably have to be a car that has sat in a garage most of its life and gone nowhere and in my experience 928's do not like that at all.
On the other hand I do not give too much credence to whether paint is original or not -I like my cars to be immaculate and not a collection of dinks, scratches and different shades of faded colour but that is me. I reckon normal people would be quite happy with the way the car is at the moment but then I am a genuine bona-fide 928 enthusiast [nut job?]. Get this car repainted by an independent specialist body shop who know what they are doing, re cover the dash panels and get someone to refurbish the seats [a minor job by the look of it] - and I think such would make this a stunning 928 for not that much $$'s. If cosmetics are not an issue for the new owner then just run it as it is but that would be a waste of potential IMHO.
Too many of these cars have fallen by the wayside but sooner or later that reduction in fleet size is going to work in the financial favour of those of us who stood by them and in Europe it seems that is happening already- maybe in the States too.
The key to purchasing any second hand car successfully is to find the right one and then worry about the price. I would sooner pay a $1k or $2k premium for a good one with potential than a mechanical train wreck. If you can get into a really nice well sorted S4 for less than $20k all in then you are doing well in my opinion.
There is no shortage of $10k [or less] bangers on the market- go figure!
Rgds
Fred
07-20-2015, 11:49 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thanks Fred, if I had the $ right now I would likely be trailering it home. I cannot understand the amount of perseveration that is going on over this car. And 50C+? No more whining from me...
(Hmm, would she really miss one of her horses? Just one?)
(Hmm, would she really miss one of her horses? Just one?)
07-20-2015, 11:59 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Martin,
It was a bit cooler this afternoon- a nice fresh 42C! I took the 928 to a shop round the corner from where I live to top up the a/c gas which is bordering on the low pressure threshold [starts working when the system is heat soaked]. Unfortunately they were closed [Eid holidays ongoing] so I took it for a quick "throat clear" down the highway.
I sometimes think folks would not recognise a good deal if it jumped up and bit them in the ***.
What can you buy for $10k these days- a well knackered family sedan with doggy pee in the back seats? Maybe one of those Indian shopping trolleys with an engine [of sorts]?
Regards
Fred
07-20-2015, 05:17 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Having realized my car obsession with American muscle cars, I came to learn the difference between a 'sales bank' car versus an 'ordered' car.
Whereas a 'sales bank' car was made to sit at a dealership... the 'ordered' car was specifically optioned by the buyer.
Having dual positrol seats with lumbar & additional amplifier -in this color- this is undoubtedly an 'ordered' car.
Buyers picking out their own options would have to financially secure the car prior to the order being placed and have to wait months for their dream car to arrive!
Here are the option codes and what I have been able to decipher:
128-0333 (?) USM (?)
M2842-82J = 5.0L 32-valve DOHC V8; 316 HP / 317 ft. lbs. TQ
A2812-LJ = 4 speed automatic; 3.676:1, 2.412:1, 1.436:1, 1.00:1
L80D = Cassisrot (Cassis Red Metallic paint)
QE = Interior color & material code (?)
C02 = USA market (exc. California)
018 = Sport steering wheel elevated hub -30mm
158 = Radio (Blaupunkt 'Reno' SQR 46)
302 = Type designation on rear end
418 = Protective side moldings
494 = Additional amplifier (Blaupunkt Quadro BQA 80)
513 = Lumbar support -right seat
533 = Anti-theft device (alarm)
538 = Right seat with position control & lumbar
570 = High-output (rear) a/c
586 = Lumbar support -left seat
650 = Electric Sunroof
More pics:
1. Hatch sticker
2. All warning lights work
3. Manual & fuse/relay chart (looks brand new!)
Last edited by White Lightnin'; 07-22-2015 at 11:25 AM. Reason: defined a word
07-20-2015, 11:14 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
For those people that are worried about TBF you know you can purchase an engine fairly cheap and drop it in. I have 3 928's a 4.5, 4.7 and 5.0 engines. I have not had to replace an engine yet, but purchased a 1987 5.0 engine last month for a spare, and it came with the wiring harnesses, starter, alternator, air compressor, air pump, and was pulled from a running car. It even included free shipping.
So do not be afraid to buy a 928 that needs some work. You will be rewarded with vast knowledge and you will learn more about our cars.
Harvey
So do not be afraid to buy a 928 that needs some work. You will be rewarded with vast knowledge and you will learn more about our cars.
Harvey
07-21-2015, 12:07 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Kudos on the 'word of the day' lesson, Martin! (damn if I didn't have to look it up -I thought it was just a fast typing typo )
I replaced it in your quote but put a synonym in brackets for the rest of us (thank you Thesaurus!).
)I replaced it in your quote but put a synonym in brackets for the rest of us (thank you Thesaurus!).
07-21-2015, 12:13 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
For those people that are worried about TBF you know you can purchase an engine fairly cheap and drop it in. I have 3 928's a 4.5, 4.7 and 5.0 engines. I have not had to replace an engine yet, but purchased a 1987 5.0 engine last month for a spare, and it came with the wiring harnesses, starter, alternator, air compressor, air pump, and was pulled from a running car. It even included free shipping.
So do not be afraid to buy a 928 that needs some work. You will be rewarded with vast knowledge and you will learn more about our cars.
Harvey
So do not be afraid to buy a 928 that needs some work. You will be rewarded with vast knowledge and you will learn more about our cars.
Harvey
On a side note Harvey... I am happy you have ended up on your feet after the heart attack & divorce -I only recently saw a post of yours detailing the causes. My heart goes out to you and I know your pain -just caught them early enough to not say "I do".
All the best brother... don't be a stranger!