BC

And you will be protecting this investment with what external oil control solutions?

IcemanG17

yes it will have the 3/8th spacer & OB oil pan...plus a cooler and accusump...& some more mods to allow better crankcase breathing......I plan on running a very conservative tune, use only 100 octane fuel and keeping the AFR no leaner than 12.5 in the powerband....

I set caspers old engine to 12.5 in midrange, slowly richening to 12.0 at 6000rpm

Richard S

Step 1: install new engine
Step 2: pour Amsoil into new engine
Step 3: expect 100+ race days without any problems

Rich

GlenL

Here's a post from 2006:
https://rennlist.com/forums/3085866-post34.html

The point being that the front sump is too slightly sloped. On my cars, there's no oil going into the sump on full acceleration in any gear below 5.

The calculations also show the angle of the oil in the sump. The oil cloverleaf front is exposed when accelerating.

Who know the purpose of the oil pickup cloverleaf in the older cars? I believe it's there to improve oil cooling but drawing the oil along the bottom of the pan. That works when cruising along. When accelerating or cornering the edges get exposed and air is allowed into the engine.

The S4-style pickup is better as it goes closer to the bottom and it has a screen.

I should add that the plans in that thread were not followed through on as I soon grenaded the engine. The next build included an I-J windage kit and S4 pick-up. That has worked well.

BC

I feel that it may be an issue of perspective.

I am a disassembler, and I get stick for it here. I have put many things together as well, but bringing that up is not as fun for some.

I have seen many rod bearing and main bearing sets (not as many as someone like greg) - from all types of cars. Well, not a Ferrari But many.

The 928 bearings look he worst from the laziest cars (lower mileage, automatics, etc) compared to random LS1s (I thought I was going to build a LS based motor for my truck and my brother's Z-28) hard run BBC engines (I am building a BBC for the truck now) and high rpm honda engines. When I was going to do something on my S2000 engine ( I don't have that car any longer, not for several years) I found a junk yard engine and took it apart. 9000rpm. Bearings were spotless. Bores were worn, but that is a different thread (and forum, and community )

Take apart a 928 motor and it looks like there is a war going on:

1) Metal to metal contact
2) Indication the bearings are made of butter (comparatively)
3) "pounding" of bearings like Greg talks about.
4) Thrust bearings are making copper.
5) Detonation is happening... basically all the time. Because there is so much oil entering the intake that its creating communities of oil coke on the pistons and chambers.

Some people on here have a perspective that the almighty 928 motor survives on sheer will alone... or something. The perspective, in my opinion is skewed. Other motors can probably get away with alot.

Essentially, we are too - just by driving them. Bring it to a track with basic oil control mods and a good/very good driver, and....

GregBBRD

I want to see pictures, with the oil pan off.

Bet it looks just like Edward's engine!

Some congratulations are in order, however:

Your car is finally pulling enough continuous G's that the oil pick-up is being uncovered, unlike Grandma Kibort's engine!

You are really getting this driving thing down!

James Bailey

Ouch that hurts !!! , call it smooth driving style , conservation , equipment management but ......Harsh very harsh !! the anomaly which is Kibort's all too atypical track history.

IcemanG17

the engine didn't make it out today......will be out tomorrow AM...the post mortem will be conducted hopefully this weekend if all goes well.....I plan on taking LOTS of pictures.....

Sean watched the video from when the engine let go.....oil pressure was normal all day, with no indications of anything weird....oil pressure will drop in the corners to about 1/2 on the stock gauge (I know I know) and quickly recover, even in long corners like T2 at thunderhill.....3 bar is 45psi...quite a bit of oil pressure..... Oil analysis for the engine never showed indications of bearing wear..... This is all normal for Casper

I am fairly sure it was part failure, maybe dropped a valve, broken valve springs, that caused a massive failure along the same lines as Andersons stroker or Rob Edwards recent destruction....l

justaguy

I'd post the video but it's beyond my technical abilities. The engine just let go on the exit of 9 no indication just died. We had the engine on the hoist and were ready to pluck it but The staff t T-Hill wanted to go home so we had to leave at 5. I offered beer to get them to stay but had no takers we will have the engine out and the pan off by noon. We will know what happened for sure as soon as the inside of the engine sees the light of day. There are no holes in the block and the engine turns over by hand but will not make a complete revolution. My geuss is dropped valve. But I'm just guessing. I will never race another 928 with out an accusump and some sort of PM program in pace. If 20 hrs works for the Cup Car boys it works for me.

GregBBRD

Humor is an interesting thing. Sometimes the funniest things are the ones that are closest to the truth.

Kibort knows that Mark Anderson can completely destroy a set of slicks in one day....while Kibort uses the same used tires he found in the junk pile, for an entire season.

That's all about cornering forces.....

GregBBRD

Stock oil pressure sender and location worthless for track use.

By the time you see the pressure drop, in the corners, it's all over.

Install in head. Drill out restriction to get useful information.

Courtshark

Congrats Brian on getting Zombie Casper back on track. We all had faith there'd be an afterlife.

mark kibort

I cant believe none of you remembered this about Brians engine...................... its a 4.5L boys!!!!!

Have any of you seen the oiliing holes for the crank on a 4.5L ???? Absolutley not up to the task.
has to be the larger oiling hole type crank on a 928 , for SURE! I think its 1984 or newer.
When we built Scots, thats the first thing we changed out for the rebuilds.

atb

Where would this location be on a 32v head? (Soon to be installing gauges in my track car)

mark kibort

I certainly am with you there.. Ive never run the early system as i think there is too much "stuff" in the way, for oil level recovery. I like the later pickups and have had GREAT luck with them so far. running faster, pulling more Gs than brian has for many many years! not only am i running slicks, but running 335 rear and 315 front tires on either slicks or sticky DOTs. over 15 years now!! no failures. 5 different engines.

I dont think this is the issue at all. just take a pan and fill it to fill mark. tilt it at 45 degree angle. thats 1g. see where the oil level is relative to the pickup.
I would think you are right about one thing here. sustained high rpm, or over RPM is the killer. i.e. open road racing, and possibly, wrong gear selection around sweepers.
other things are driving style or mistakes that no one admits too. (i.e. mis downshifts, or over revs)

Brian..... you have a early crank!!! end of story. again, do what i have done already (and i didnt invent anything here. i just tried to do what Joe and Mark (with Gregs help) have done already), and put the good oil in, make sure the level is good, and have fun. the early crank has tiny tiny oil holes!

Mk