boomboom

Hey James,
One person has come on via PM and has a GTS. I am asking the things I am learning about GTSs and those are:
1) Any oil consumption?
2) Any noises from the bottom end of the motor?
3) Of course the normal service related questions, Belts, H2O Pump, pulleys, fuel lines and other lines etc

Let's see how that one pans out, but Dan's car is amazing and it actually will not be driven too much, but enjoyed when driven. I think the fact that it is one of one is worth a lot.

Thanks for the insight and i'll keep you posted.

Regards,
Alan

Tom in Austin

Yes, the Zyclamarot S4 is a gorgeous car and it comes with a second hood with longhorns attached. I tried to buy it before Marc White pried it out of the original owner's hands ... LOL!

S4ordie

My Zyclamrot Metallic car is 98% stock. The Tuquoise Metallic car has body modifications (sunroof delete and GTS rear quarter panels - all performed with factory components) that were indeed available on some 91 S4's. So the modifications are not as originally manufactured but certainly available. The 6.5L stroker engine in the TM car is the original engine block and cylinder heads therefore indistinguishable from its previous configuration as a 5.0L. Only the exhaust and and suspension (Bilsteins with stock coils) are noticiably different from stock. There are many other upgrades that are not recognizable.

Relative to the collect-ability of 928's in general - rarity is not always the notable qualifier for value. It is mass appeal. For those whom think the 928 will someday attain interest on the level of the 911's, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc. I just don't see it no matter how much I may understand how great and unique these cars are. They sit in the same categories as the Studebaker Avanti, another magnificently advanced design for its day and like the 928, timeless and the Sunbeam Tiger. I have owned both, never with the intention of making money on them, but because they represented, to me, the best of its era and class. Even today, the Avanti and the Tiger sit low on valuations despite having far, far, far fewer production numbers than the 928 (5,800 Avanti's across 1962 and 1963 model years and 7000 Tigers from 1964 to 1967).

I do agree, very low mile original 928's from any year will be worth more than cars with many miles, especially GTS 5 speeds, but those cars are anomalies and yet are worth fractions of their Italian peers of similar ages.

Additionally, unless there is a full and verifiable history of the car, these very low mileage examples likely have deteriorated blocks and cylinder heads.

The 928 does not have Mass appeal. It never will unless it were to become some sort of television celebrity, even then there are far more haters of the marque than lovers or appreciators. For those that are looking at buying a 928 they can drive, the most important thing to drive value should be the mechanical state of the car as well as the condition of the interior and exterior. These cars have several idiosyncrasies about them mechanically, that can make them massive money pits (thrust bearing failure on the autos, green hose of death on the 5 speeds, fuel line fires on all models, water pump impellers eating into the block, etc. Finding a car that has upgraded components to prevent these issues represent a better long term risk mitigation investment. Note, I said risk mitigation. These cars, unless one finds an unmolested barn dweller, just aren't going to someday attain sky high valuations.

Some Hagerty Info that mirrors the 928 value trends. Note, the value for the Tiger is for the most valued year, 1967. 1964-1966 are about 30-40% less.

pcar928fan

I agree totally with Dan! Still gonna steal that red car some day! LOL!!! Man, I just LOVE IT! I mean I REALLY LOVE IT! It is a car that almost every 928 owner that knows about it wants to own it!

Now, do GTS's consume oil? DAMN RIGHT! The book says "normal" is 1 quart per 700 miles! LOL! Should they? NO! But the factory didn't bother to fix the known problem and instead just changed the "normal" to a higher consumption expectation! It also tends to make them ping more than other 928's... I love GTS's because of the way they look and the Tq they make! That said, I love ALL 928's!

NoVector

I haven't seen that in a long, long time. Nothing but interest and thumbs-ups at any Porsche (or other) event I go to. I have to believe your cars receive the same. After almost 20 years, I think the air-breathers have given up. In fact, it appears we’re converting another.

Gary Knox

The oil consumption for GTS's seems to me to be more closely associated with the '93 models than the '94/95's. My '94 consumes about a qt per year in annual driving of 2-3K miles. I do NOT drive this car hard, however. My '89 track car probably had the same consumption for typical highway driving here in the mid-Atlantic area, but I when I drove it HARD on the track, it consumed about a quart a day (~150 miles per day, 5-6 revs into 6K+ per 3 miles of driving). So - maybe a lot depends on how you drive the car.

Some Rennlisters - Herman Koster, and Greg Brown - in particular have made modifications to the crankcase venting/suction systems that seem to reduce or practically eliminate the oil consumption in the GTS engines.

Gary Knox

namasgt

A correct long term fix for the GTS oil consumption would be to take the engine apart and drill the oil drain back holes on the piston. I think its 8 holes per piston in the oil ring groove.

the flyin' scotsman

Interesting notes Gary

My GTS wasn't driven much or very hard before I owned it and it did go through oil as I do tend to explore the cars performance.

Then I drove the car to East Glacier Park in Montana for a shake down run before heading to Wichita, Kansas (you may have seen it there).........it stopped using oil! Whether the engine needed long sustained use with the engine at good operating temperatures Im not sure but it seemed to seal the rings further.

Herman and I had long conversation re. the topic when we met again in Texas for IIIrd Coast where he demonstrated how his GTS is set up. I also drove his car, very nice

Not sure if the above applies to other GTS's but do agree the oil consumption can be controlled.

Alan

My '94 used lots of oil - I often drive it hard but its always used oil even when driven more moderately.

Getting there now on the fix, but I'd like to understand the differences between those that use lots of oil (most it seems) and those that don't...?

Is is just driving style?, ambient temps?, mileage? or just usage between oil changes? mine is a DD so I have a very frequent reminder of how it was/is.

I'd not trust anyone telling me that a car 'uses no oil' to be able to predict if it will for a different driver/location (even if you could trust someone selling a car...).

Alan

the flyin' scotsman

for my GTS:

driving style.....explore performance at most opportunities

ambient........from very cool spring/fall temp to full summer (40c) in mid US

mileage: 170k kms (just over 100k miles)

usage: was high, 1L every 2nd gas fill up.....now very low, 1L per annual oil change

oil......15w50 Mobil 1 (since I owned it, unknown previous)

should add the car is never winter driven so parked from ~Oct to ~ March depending on when snow arrives and leaves.

9eighty6

I LOVE THIS -- it's so wonderful that it's almost hard to believe. All I tend to read in any Porsche-related text is all about how the 993 is the last "real" Porsche and how coveted a model it is and how anything water-cooled is generally not accepted by the hardcore Porsche enthusiast.

Personally, I am a Porsche lover regardless of the model; however, if I had to choose a 911 variant to own then it would have to be the 993 cab BUT not at the expense of giving up my 928S. With that said, I almost find it hard to believe that the OP wants to sell a 993 cab to join us 928 water-cooled "outcasts" (or, at least, that's how I feel sometimes). This is quite a positive sign in my eyes! I will say that I've had lots of positive feedback from the general public and 911 owners so far.

I also read a post talking about how a young lady was excited about buying a 928 becuase it was "so 80's" and ... I'm proud to share in that opinion! Young(er) people like me (27) remember growing up in the mid-80s/early-90s and enjoy the nostalgia of the era. I agree that, over time, more people of my age/generation are going to want the cars that they grew up seeing which bodes well for the 928 crowd.

Just my 2c ... Love this thread and best of luck to the OP on the sale of the 993 and the pickup of a high quality Shark!

--
Josh
1984 928S 5-speed
Pewter metallic / Burgundy

boomboom

I love my 993 Cab, but I think I like the look and will hopefully enjoy the drive better of the 928. A bit more sophisticated while still being a brute when needed.

Also something new to look at in the garage and make my neighbors crazy and jealous.

Alan

Never really got much grief from the local PCA 911 crowd even 13 years ago when I first got it... Now that everything is watercooled no issues at all - in fact some compliments and lots of interest.

The hard core types - if they must - can focus on hating the Cayenne cars instead and esp. the hybrids/diesels...

Alan

Randy V

Re. reducing oil consumption - doesn't the oil capture/vent system developed and sold by 928 Specialists dramatically reduce oil use?

Alan

Not on My GTS... I think Herman/Roger found the same thing..

Reduce: yes somewhat, dramatically: no

Alan