Pfc. Parts

After spending a couple of days in DE/TT this weekend at Laguna Seca, I've decided my brakes need some work. This was the first time I've taken the car to the track and I went through a fairly new set of street pads and by the end I had worn them to metal in front and needed a tow back to my shop. At least one rotor has been eaten (haven't taken the wheels off yet but can tell from the sound).

I have a spare set of factory rotors on my parts car that I'll swap in this week but I'm looking for a good set of track quality rotors to replace them since my parts car will soon become my track car. I read good things about Zimmermann but they're fairly pricey and was wondering if anyone might be able to explain their advantages? What makes them better than the standard OEM rotors I can get for $60?

I bought some Hawk HPS pads to replace my now worn out ceramic pads (which I had just changed for the first time, apparently they weren't quite up to Laguna Seca). Since I'm looking for a pad that will get me to and from the track (60 mi. each way) and also survive when they get there, these looked like a good bet. Any experience out there?

Also, I had ATE Amber in the lines but was still unhappy with the brakes. I'm installing SS lines but wondering if there's a better fluid out there? It's most likely my problem is with the pads but I'd like to cover all the bases if I can.

Thanks,

andy-gts

wouldn't ceramic pads wear into the rotors all by them selves….I was under in the impression ceramic pads needed special rotors..I heard the gt3's wear rotors fairly quickly with their ceramic pads also…just the cost of racing I guess…!

U-928

Ceramic pads don't need special rotors as far as I'm aware. We put "ceramic compound" pads on customer vehicles all the time. They typically have a better pedal feel and bite when compared to a similar semi-metallic or organic compound pad.

Cryo-treated rotors FrozenRotors.com help with wear and aggressive pads. I haven't used them specifically on my 928. But have on other cars I own (equipped with Hawk HP-Plus' that are quite aggressive) they've held up better than conventional off-the-shelf rotors.

Some others' opinions will vary, but that's my experience.

GlenL

Rotors are all "the same" except when they're not. Zimmerman are just better made. I've used cheap Sebro rotors and the surface wasn't machined well and they needed to be worn down to have a consistent feel. Cheap drilled rotors may have more problems. Solid rotors and slotted are less susceptible to failures. Bottom line: Spend the money you want.

The fluid doesn't change feel until it boils. Stainless lines will change that. Get all the air out and it should be stiff+.

Race pads will squeal in town and wear the rotors more than stock pads. Changing at the track is a headache but I've done it a lot.

Speedtoys

I guess the smart move is don't use aggressive pads that require $200 in cryo treatment.

Cryo is magic to most people. And to most people, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Pfc. Parts

Thanks Jeremy, I was looking at the Frozen Rotors and as Chicken mentions, they were magic to me. I suppose experience is all I'll be able to wrap my brain around, no sense in getting too technical there Some small and poorly remembered part of me thinks metals can be selectively quenched to form a very hard crystalline surface layer; this is how the hamon lines on Japanese swords are made.

I definitely boiled fluid Glen, but I could only find one other that had a higher boiling point than ATE and I'll need a sponsor to afford it Sounds like I'll try replacing the rubber with stainless and replace the ATE.

Thanks,

Speedtoys

Many things boil fluid.

Old fluid, bad braking habits, roasted pads...THIN pads...

There is no perfect combination..or perfect pad that streets and tracks without compromise.

IMHO, the porterfield R4S is a good compromise, leaning towards an excelent street pad, that CAN be tracked, but you have to compromise with it too.

Enjoy learning on the track, its not about the speed..anyone can go fast straight.

GregBBRD

Very wise statement.

I truthfully can't tell if a rotor has been cryo treated or just pissed on.

It's my belief that either will work the same.

GregBBRD

The "next step" up, in brake fluid, is Castrol SRF.

Standard equipment in Porsche Cup Cars, Lambos, etc.

Virtually impossible to boil.

Tough for mortal men to pay for, also.

Somewhere between $75 to $100 a liter, depending on where you buy it.

Pfc. Parts

Thanks Greg, I'll check it out. The "mushy" feeling really inhibited me; I couldn't get aggressive on the straits because I wasn't trusting my brakes. There's no price on peace of mind.

GlenL

Keeping pads thicker will help prevent fluid boiling. Once pads get near 1/4" or less they get replaced.

Yeah, you're "wasting" a lot of pad but it's part of the game. Pads are a lot cheaper than tires. Just a cost of joining in.

Ketchmi

There are a couple of brake fluid choices inbetween ATE and SRF, Motul RBF600 and RBF660 are less than half the price of SRF as well as Wilwood and have a very high boiling point when dry. When wet, nothing comes close to SRF. ATE is actually a lower level performance brake fluid.

Speedtoys

Or keep the old backing plates, swiss cheese them, and use them as heat spacers.

If you have the $..get some blanks made out of Ti as well.

Speedtoys

Yup.

Rotors are only two things.

1) A heat sink
2) A place for the pads to stop moving against when you push the pedal.

They are not -the- raw fiction surface...pad material on the rotor is. Some pads have more ADHESION in their action than ABRASION within their operating temperatures than others, and some have less.

Castellated caliper pistons help keep a lot of heat out of calipers as well.

Speedtoys

True..but..as a high volume consumable (every time you leave a track, bleed the caliper volume out IMHO) its pricey.

A car on street tires, or even DOT race rubber, is unlikely to really need that kinda fluid.

If it did..I would suggest there's work to be done with the driver and pad selection.