Makes lots of sense but who knew I'd burn that much pad in two days? Well, you probably did but *I* didn't

I bled the lines the day before track and checked all the pads, they looked good but not 100%. I should have not only replaced them, I should have put better pads in. I'd whine about it but that's the whole reason for doing DE's isn't it? To learn stuff? I have no complaints in that respect, I'm just asking questions now so I can do better next time.

Thanks to this list for volunteering that help because without it I'd be up the creek

 

I can understand why that could work. Do you make them yourself?

How long have you been toolin' that 928 of yours up 9? I thought I was the only one on the block and I've been here 40 years.

 

Scott, did you fit S4 brakes or are they the original 85 brakes?

 

They're orriginal 85 brakes. I've been thinking about S4's for a couple of days now (for obvious reasons) but a couple of guys at the track suggested the car was built the way it was built and you were just asking for trouble if you changed it.

I took it under advisement. I plan to keep the "street" car stock but I'm still thinking very seriously about bigger brakes for the track car.

 

I'd already been looking at Motul (which is about twice the price of ATE). You've used it? Good stuff?

Thanks,

 

Baer supplies them on their big brake kits.

I'm not against machining mine similarly on the spare set I have yet to complete a rebuild/refinish on.

And every drive up & down 9, and more critically Bear Creek Road, is a 35min track session for me..bout 6-7/10ths depending on mood.

If I'm feeling my Wheaties..a little more. But generally Im going "as fast as I possibly can, while using the least amount of braking as possible to allow the car to rotate into/out of turns." That still might be ballin' fast, but using weight Xfer with steering input with specific small brake inputs to turn..you carry a much higher average speed to work and back than straight old go fast, brake, turn..accelerate, and repeat 100 times.


Smooth is fast. AutoX taught me that...never doubt the education that cone chasing can give ya.


And..we are very close to each other..since you mention it. What color car??

I once passed a white 928 going up BCR from 17..he pulled over, I waved..last I ever saw of it.

 

Yes, the Motul is good fluid when it's fresh. It tends to darken quickly, indicating it has absorbed moisture from the atmosphere, which reduces its boiling points to some extent.

In practice that means you ought to flush Motul fairly frequently. For a track car you're doing that anyway regardless of fluid but for a street car which sees occasional track time it's easy to forget.

As others have said, this sort of work is simply part of the cost to participate. In past lives I used to put different brakes on cars not so much for the improved performance of the parts, but because the different calipers were so much easier to service than the OEM pieces. Pad swaps were trivial. Bleeding was (relatively) painless. And generic pads for a common caliper were typically cheaper than OEM-shaped alternatives.

However you still had to spend the money to change out the parts in the first place. For pure street cars I didn't bother.

 

If someone wanted to compromise "street manners" for a massively capable track pad.

Raybestos ST43 pads up front..and something street sticky in rear, like Porterfield R4S on a higher than stock rear bias valve. (stock one will be junk on a tall front pad like this).

They will squeal like a pig on the street, esp once you warm them up, but you can stop quietly, just have to do it more aggressively, or just deal with it.

But you'll rule ANY street braking situation you can come up with, and you'll be quite comfy with big smiles on the track as well.

And with zero accelerated rotor wear. I get 2 sets of ST43 pads on my RX8 out of one set of rotors up front..with no odd wear patterns either.

A super aggressive street/track setup on big street tires, or DOT race rubber, would be ST43 up front, and ST42 in the rear with an adjustable bias valve. The ST42 is a 'flat' friction response to all temperatures which lets you tune them in very tightly in the rear with a valve.

http://porterfield-brakes.com/ Tell Wendy, or whoever answers, that Jeff from Speedtoys sent you.

 

I used to go into the valley every day just for the drive. In my opinion, if you miss the stretch between Stapp Rd. and the hairpin north of the Saratoga Toll, you miss the best part. I like it both directions.I have a place off 236 in the park about 2 miles back from the Waterman Gap.

Mine's black. Actually both are black but only one is drivable and it's only been on the road for the past couple (literally) weeks. About 20 years ago you'd have seen me with CA plates that read "GOFERAL".

 

Cool..im 3mi from the OTHER end of 236, at the golf course.

 

Speed, I'd like to continue this conversation but my wife, after seeing your avatar, says you've scared her and I can't talk to you anymore

We raise horses. We surf. Shark horses scare the pee out of us...

 

PM sent..

 

Visually, I agree I couldn't either. But I can tell you the ones that were sold to me as "cryo-treated" lasted and held up substantially better than the not cheap Brembo rotors that they replaced.

And the quality and type of brake fluid as some have mentioned can make or brake (miss-spell intentional) the whole setup, regardless of how awesome the rest is.

I think that this describes my experiences with the Hawk HP-Plus's pretty well too, similar or same pad with a different branding? The HP+ also put out a substantial amount of dust, so cleaning nice wheels is mandatory if you want to keep them nice.

 

I used the HP+ on my 928 and still do on my 944 for year-round track/street use. Yes, dusty but most track pads are.

Now I use Hawk Blue at the track for my 928. Just needed more grip. These have nasty dust so I swap them either at the track or just before driving to the track.

As you seem to be ramping up your track addiction, I suggest going with semi-metallic street pads or the HP+ especially if you're still on street tires.

 

How long have we been doing this boys?? go with what works.
use some pagid orange pads and standard zimerman rotors. use super gold (was super blue ) and you are good for a few years of DEing. stepping it up to more hp and caging the car and racing and then we can talk about something more for your car. you shouldnt have any issues with the brakes. afterall they are brembo.
if you are still having problems with the brakes, with fade, etc. Get me in the car with you for a session, ill save you days of frustration with some simple things anyone can do to run faster and safer and not boil your brake fluid!

Its so funny to the lengths folks go to worry about trying new things , when old things have already been proven to work. remember, we have taken the 928 at laguna for years and years, to times of 1:45 in street form and DOT tires with very little HP (240ish). this will be 5 to 10 seconds faster than you willl ever go in a street 928 on street tires, we have never had a problem with even the old S style brakes.

dont re invent the wheel. go with what has been proven and then focus on the most important parts, the driving!

brake lines do NOTHING. the porsche rubber lines are fine. Anderson and i used them for years in serious racing. However, he changed out his lines and i didnit, and eventually , i popped one at the track (see my racing video of going into turn 2 at laguna with NO brakes) Do the lines for one reason and one reason only.... safety from blown line, not pedal feel.

Pagid orange racing pads are agressive enough for the track, and some light racing, but dont squeel on the street if they are bedded with new rotors from the start.

you dont need Motul either. thats something you need if you can show me your rotors glowing red! any decent race like fluid will work. ATF is cheap , so get that.