mark kibort

it wont be a problem for a car with a healthly engine to start and the right oil.

really, 2.5 to 6 seconds is an eternity?? in your "worldly experience of racing". Get a grip Greg.... speed GT world challenge just changes the tires and the times change 5 seconds a lap with NO HP changes!

you find me a racing class where 500hp vs 300hp doesn't result in a 4-6 second a lap change. when mark and I raced at the GTGP and I won that race in the rain.... in the dry, I was 1:36.1 and he was 1:32 and he had slicks and I had DOTs. its always been around 4 seconds when both of us were trying and under near the same conditions. Had he been on DOTs, I don't think he would have been much quicker than 1:34.
and he knows this too.

you have turned this into a battle of your hero vs me. Im not playing Greg. Its about my times being inline for the car im driving at the limit. its that simple. its at the limit and its not blowing up. Instead of asking why, you have to go on the attack? There are a lot of good drivers out there. its not that uncommon to pull a 1:34 at laguna on DOTs in a 500hp car. Lots of lesser drivers do this ALL the time. the point is..... im doing a pretty quick time in a stock 928, and its not blowing up. on REAL slicks, no bumpsteer, no breathers, no oil mods, nothing nothing nothing. and now, you are backpedalling to say, willow is so magically different on the 928.
a gforce is a gforce! its sustained on may other tracks for near as long as willows famed, turn 8-9. look at thunderhill. its longer and is entered from near redline off turn 1-2 straight. no problems for the 15 years ive run there. no problems for scot and his 4 928 engines as well.

we have NO evidence of any of the engine blowings, as far as video, or construction to go on. Brian blown engines were suspect from the start and since he has a good engine he has had no issues. guys have been building engines and blowing for years and always found some problem/mistake during their builds. ('oh, forgot the plug in the heads", or forgot to turn on the accusump".... etc). my cars are not magic. they work and have been all stock oiling components.

mark kibort

http://globaltunergp.com/results_challenge.php

Anderson and I .. both with no excuses. cars working well... this time, im at 370rwhp vs his 520wrhp. im on DOTs hes on slicks.......1:36.1 vs 1:33.4

And don't forget Greg: I don't have the motons or real Slicks vs my DOTs (probably worth nothing, right?? With alll your racing expertise you know this because setup and good suspension and tires means really nothing) Do you really know how uneducated and inexperienced you sound by making those statements?

Performance difference facts:

Aside from a 175hp differential (flywheel HP),
I don't have 2" wider track
I don't have the missing 150lbs,
I don't have the monster splittler or wing because those things just don't matter in racing, right?
and Im on DOTs while He is on slicks :rofmao:

what would ANY knowledgable person in racing say those 5 major factors are worth on a 1:36 second track? Hmmmmm some would argue the tires ALONE would make up the difference..... me, i think our times reflect two drivers taking those two cars to just up to their limits.

Here is the rain race video:

the race with the dry ending of the race for best lap times. Anderson passing me at 8:00 on this video rear cam.

James Bailey

Mark K ..."im doing a pretty quick time in a stock 928, and its not blowing up. on REAL slicks, no bumpsteer, no breathers, no oil mods, nothing nothing nothing.... "

Last I heard you had a stroker crank from Moldex which given their history of drilling them like a Chevy and also they cut Chevy size rod journals to use Chevy rod bearings which uses Chevy style rods (the Carrillos )......so much for the nothing nothing nothing....

None of which says anything about your driving abilities.

MGW-Fla

Agreed John. Although I'm really enjoying reading all of this & think we should see if we can get ESPN or Fox Sports to put this 928 competition on the cable for us all to enjoy, somehow the Accusump & Oiling issue discussion here(which was at one point the thought of why Rob's engine grenaded) was somehow hijacking Rob's thread & had to be moved. Yet this discussion(pissing contest) has become the only discussion the past few pages. Funny cause I was reading this thread from 2010(Crank scrapers, pan spacers, Accusumps ?) and it digressed down a very similar path. https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...cers+Accusumps

mark kibort

I said and meant "no external oiling modifications" on many of the posts. All the 120races, plus the other platforms of near 60-80 races were done with stock engines. (thus , referring to the "stock 928 engine" comment). the stroker may have modified crank, but the breather, oiling and other components are all still stock!

So, James........ my point has always been..... I havent modified any of external components of the 928 oiling sytem. it doesnt burn, oil, I dont have an issue with oil being sucked into the intake, and im not toasting rod bearings.

James Bailey

Frankly Mark I find this comment ..."com'mon Jimmy, you have to keep up!!!.. " demeaning and condescending but quite in character.

mark kibort

I didn't mean anything by it. (modified) But, out of respect, ive removed it from the post.
Im sorry James, it was truely meant only in a friendly, socially humorus way.

IcemanG17

Okay...I never said I am in the same category of driver as either Mark.....I consider myself a novice who is learning as he goes and trying to develop the car within my limited ability and budget...

However.....when MK had "320" whp...his best lap at Thunderhill was a 2:01.7 My current best lap is 2:02.12 with "265" whp AND zero aero....none...nada...nothing...not even "S" spoilers...no splitter or wing... here is my best with a horribly shaky camera..it should be noted that I set this lap time on a freshly rebuilt by Doc Brown transaxle! My previous best was nearly 3 seconds slower!


I can't find Kiborts run pre-stroker..... but it was at a free test day in January following a fast M3... yes my car is lighter than MK's....he comes off track at about 3000lbs or 9.375-1 vs my 10.75-1 The other variable is I run used slicks, he runs used Dot R, but he has more power and aero....however the lack of aero makes the car VERY loose....silly really, you need to be very cautious with steering inputs.....just ask Sean, since he has driven Casper many times and always says its too loose....however loose is fast :>)

James Bailey

OK ..."it should be noted that I set this lap time on a freshly rebuilt by Doc Brown transaxle! My previous best was nearly 3 seconds slower! .."

So the only logical conclusion is Kibort will be 3 seconds faster after he gets a Greg Brown trans.....

James Bailey

Mark refresh my memory about the saga of the cam chain sprockets as they lost teeth.....first one then another and another tooth until you finally replaced the camshafts. That was interesting.

BC

Merely Details Jim. No mind. Kibort is not interested in those useless details.

GregBBRD

Sadly, I did overlook all of this stuff.

I guess to make things really fair, you should spot Mark Anderson a couple of seconds a lap, since you think you are clearly the better driver.

Yeah, I've spent virtually my entire life giving people two and the move....it would be great if I got that, for a change.

We will just add that in to the agreement.

Thanks for being so fair and pointing out Mark Anderson's inadequacies...you certainly would not want to take my money without being totally fair!

What a great guy you are!

mark kibort

That's right.... I forgot about that. I found teeth on my oil drain plug. I think 2 to start, and then every oil change, I was finding more and more. as soon as I found one, I would pull the covers and see where they were located. some here discussed the load on the adjacent teeth and it seemed like a good bet to continue running it. finally, after losing 7 teeth, 2 I couldn't find, I decided to pull the cams and put on the 85 cams (modified by elgin to fit S4 exhaust journal). didn't find the final teeth until I pulled the holbert engine and saw the teeth in the webbing of the block around the crank.

Nice! Always something constructive to say!

mark kibort

Greg.... I got news for you , you need to relax.

this is not an argument. merly stating ive driven my car hard as it can be run, and been near or as fast as Mark at Laguna and during our stints in a stock beater 928 in the lemons race. This just proves that my 928 can survive without oiling mods.

you obviously worship Mark and his abilities, which I admire too. but when I put facts into a comparison of my car vs his, you seem to ignore them.
Yes, ive pushed the car as hard as mark did for many years before his intake, and ran some comparable times with a lot less advantages.
Never said I was better, in fact, ive already conceded in his abilities in a faster car, as well as at his home track. in my car or one like mine, I would think I might have some advantage, just based on my experience.

Now, take the *your* ego out of the equation, and what we have is a 928 can be punished at the track with no issues, unless its willow springs. OR it might be some of my warm up techniques and amsoil..... ether way, a true engineer would explore what im doing and how im doing it to see why its working. The only thing I can think , is that the 928 doesn't like right turns. (opposite to general consensus)

Take what I pointed out , anyway you want. my mentioning it, only shows a couple of things. Im ringing out the 928 at laguna and its surviving and has been for many many years. BUT, I also don't believe all the thing that folks say about what all the mods are worth in lap time. I don't think that me running 1:36.1 when Mark A ran 1:33.7, means ill run 1:30 if I had all the power and mods he had. I would always think that Mark with his car would run faster than me driving it or having one that equally prepared. But, it also means that im doing a lot with a lot less power, which means its harder on the car to do it.
Because it survived, and has been surviving I think its worth mentioning. I also don't think all the mods are worth as much of the manufacturers or experts here think they are worth.

Now, a question to you, since you "admit" you missed all those little differnces and you actualy build race cars and race yourself, what do you think all those things are worth as far as time?

most agree that they all are worth 1 second each. that would put me at a 1:25 at laguna if I drove mark's car.
what do you think 175hp is worth? 5 seconds? slicks? 2 seconds? 2" wider track? 1 second? motons? 1 second?

mark kibort

tires are EVERYTHING. slicks, like those Pirellis, are worth about 2 seconds vs the toyo RA1s I used that day with the pre-stroker holbert car. I would bet you dinner that if you put on my DOTs, you would run 2:04, like we ran with the 5 liter part euro on DOTs. and, that car was 3100lbs .

It will be interesting to drive your car and see how it feels . its set up so differently than any 928 ive seen at the track.

here is the old video from 04 and the test day at thunderhill with no aero and toyos