Seeking Wisdom-what to fo with 928S4
06-23-2013, 06:35 PM
#16
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Bill,
I once experienced something similar on my late S4 but had no problem diagnosing it! After I pulled to the side of the road first thing I did was to pull the battery cover lid- or try to! Bloody thing was welded shut. Chump brain here forgot to fasten down the battery, must have gone over a slight bump or whatever and "Shazzam"- total blackout at 140 kph at night time! Just maneuvering to safety was a nightmare as the motorway was packed at the time, no indicators, no windwos no power just gravity to help me. To get the cover open I had to drill the cover with pilot holes until the weldment was breached.
Noting the ridiculous proximity of the multifarious connections to the lid, is it possible your friends car is temporarily arching to the lid, not enough to do what happened to me but perhaps enough to kill power and send everything haywire temporarily? Unlikely I would think but since that incident I always insert a piece of rubber sheet [unravelled inner tube type of thing] between the terminals and the battery cover/framework. Is there any sign of arching in there? Not the kind of thing one usually looks for.
Regards
Fred
I once experienced something similar on my late S4 but had no problem diagnosing it! After I pulled to the side of the road first thing I did was to pull the battery cover lid- or try to! Bloody thing was welded shut. Chump brain here forgot to fasten down the battery, must have gone over a slight bump or whatever and "Shazzam"- total blackout at 140 kph at night time! Just maneuvering to safety was a nightmare as the motorway was packed at the time, no indicators, no windwos no power just gravity to help me. To get the cover open I had to drill the cover with pilot holes until the weldment was breached.
Noting the ridiculous proximity of the multifarious connections to the lid, is it possible your friends car is temporarily arching to the lid, not enough to do what happened to me but perhaps enough to kill power and send everything haywire temporarily? Unlikely I would think but since that incident I always insert a piece of rubber sheet [unravelled inner tube type of thing] between the terminals and the battery cover/framework. Is there any sign of arching in there? Not the kind of thing one usually looks for.
Regards
Fred
Well, now Mike (the owner) thinks you are on to something. Although I never noticed any evidence of arcing to the cover, he thinks he has, and insulating the positive terminal seems to resolve it. I'm taking another look tomorrow.
06-23-2013, 06:37 PM
#17
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Thanks, Stan. I usually wait for clear evidence of a specific issue, but depending on what I find on tomorrow's re-evaluation, the battery is certainly a usual suspect.
06-23-2013, 06:39 PM
#18
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Bill,
Both you and the owner have my sympathy. The only other thing I can think of would be with the front harness. I recently found part of mine literally falling to pieces adjacent to the 14 pin connector and apparently it gets worse under the engine. The only thing I can suggest in this case would be to run separate [new] cables from the alternator through to the post and possibly the battery to the alternator [ I understand the latter is less prone to problems.
Either way- best of luck.
Regards
Fred
Both you and the owner have my sympathy. The only other thing I can think of would be with the front harness. I recently found part of mine literally falling to pieces adjacent to the 14 pin connector and apparently it gets worse under the engine. The only thing I can suggest in this case would be to run separate [new] cables from the alternator through to the post and possibly the battery to the alternator [ I understand the latter is less prone to problems.
Either way- best of luck.
Regards
Fred
06-23-2013, 06:50 PM
#19
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Seems like even if you had to:
1) replace the battery (new)
2) replace the ground strap (new)
3) replace the positive cables coming forward from the battery (used)
4) replace the whole CE panel (used)
5) replace the front engine harness (new from 928 MS)
6) purchase a battery clamp (used)
You would likely be in the project for only a $1000 or so and way ahead of getting rid or parting the car.
1) replace the battery (new)
2) replace the ground strap (new)
3) replace the positive cables coming forward from the battery (used)
4) replace the whole CE panel (used)
5) replace the front engine harness (new from 928 MS)
6) purchase a battery clamp (used)
You would likely be in the project for only a $1000 or so and way ahead of getting rid or parting the car.
06-23-2013, 08:33 PM
#20
Team Owner
Bill the other aspect of swapping in a new battery is that the battery in the car now may not be the correct size and could be shorting out somehow, or be internally damaged
a new co0rrect battery will remove doubts of the correct sized part being installed.
I hope that you have eyes on this part of the repair as a person that may not be as versed wouldn't realize the misfit possibility
a new co0rrect battery will remove doubts of the correct sized part being installed.
I hope that you have eyes on this part of the repair as a person that may not be as versed wouldn't realize the misfit possibility
06-24-2013, 03:57 AM
#21
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Good to know there is still hope for the British Empire! We tend to think of tracking problems being limited to HT wires but maybe not. Either way since I had that issue I have taken precautions just in case and it is simple enough to do.
Ironically, when I had that incident, once I got the cover open, the "new" battery I had recently fitted would not take any charge [not too surprisingly]. So I took it back to the shop I got it from and told them "there seems to be a problem with this battery"- they tested it and immediately replaced it FOC. Never told any lies!
Look forward to hearing if it really does solves this problem.
Regards
Fred
06-24-2013, 01:26 PM
#22
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Thank you all for your informative replies- Just re-upped on Rennlist-
I find the prospect of selling the Porsche worse than breaking up with a long-term live in girlfriend and was sick at the prospect of parting it out.
This forum has been a lifesaver- when some #@$% broke the driver side window and stole my OR bag with my size 14 shoes, I was told it would take $550 + 6 weeks to get another from Germany- a post on this forum and $250 got me 2 windows FEDEX and new window installed 4 days later.
Will let you know outcome.
mike
:
I find the prospect of selling the Porsche worse than breaking up with a long-term live in girlfriend and was sick at the prospect of parting it out.
This forum has been a lifesaver- when some #@$% broke the driver side window and stole my OR bag with my size 14 shoes, I was told it would take $550 + 6 weeks to get another from Germany- a post on this forum and $250 got me 2 windows FEDEX and new window installed 4 days later.
Will let you know outcome.
mike
:
06-24-2013, 02:31 PM
#23
Team Owner
go get a new Battery, let Bill assist you with this if he has time,
there are 2 different type batteries that will fit your car .
BUT one of them is about 3/4 inch higher this is NOT the battery you want ,
as it places the terminals too close to the lid,
What I am saying is,
dont try to match your old battery to the new one,
as the old battery may be too tall and the wrong battery to start with.
make sure you install a vent tube,
and a hot terminal battery cover,
NOTE the one that comes with the battery must be trimmed slightly to fit,
Important make sure you have a battery hold down installed,
If you dont have one then order a used one from 928 INTL
there are 2 different type batteries that will fit your car .
BUT one of them is about 3/4 inch higher this is NOT the battery you want ,
as it places the terminals too close to the lid,
What I am saying is,
dont try to match your old battery to the new one,
as the old battery may be too tall and the wrong battery to start with.
make sure you install a vent tube,
and a hot terminal battery cover,
NOTE the one that comes with the battery must be trimmed slightly to fit,
Important make sure you have a battery hold down installed,
If you dont have one then order a used one from 928 INTL
06-24-2013, 03:57 PM
#24
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A wonky battery cell could show these symptoms as well.
Definitely spend the $85 or so on a new battery to rule it out. I would have done that months ago.
06-28-2013, 05:45 PM
#25
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Thank you so much !
Thank all of you- esp FredR 
- the post re: arcing with the battery cover-
Turns out there is originally a sheet of insulation between the battery and cover- also there are brackets to secure the battery to the bottom of the well- It turns out the battery was sitting on the brackets, being tossed around- Bill put battery in brackets, replaced insulation and voila- it starts-
Now- any suggestions re huge leak in R12 system- HOW TO CONVERT TO R134 WITHOUT SPENDING $2000+
mike
- the post re: arcing with the battery cover- Turns out there is originally a sheet of insulation between the battery and cover- also there are brackets to secure the battery to the bottom of the well- It turns out the battery was sitting on the brackets, being tossed around- Bill put battery in brackets, replaced insulation and voila- it starts-
Now- any suggestions re huge leak in R12 system- HOW TO CONVERT TO R134 WITHOUT SPENDING $2000+
mike
06-28-2013, 06:24 PM
#26
Race Car
Was reading the thread and was going to suggest to check battery compartment-glad to hear it's worked out (fingers crossed!)
06-28-2013, 08:46 PM
#27
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The battery was not bolted down correctly and was sitting high AND it looked like the crimped end of one of the small red wires on the positive post, positioned up, had made contact with the lid. Paint on the lid and insulation on the wire was worn away in that spot, but I couldn't see any evidence of arcing. Still that was not good. I got the battery fastened down, reoriented the small wire end and put a plastic piece over the positive post so there would be no chance of arcing. 5 minutes later, with the car running, I fiddled with a loose headlight switch. I turned off the car, and it would not start and all electrical power was gone. This is after all the other steps. So, I thought, great, I can test the battery. By the time I got the rear hatch open, electrical power returned and the car started normally. I stopped the car and manipulated the battery posts thinking I might have a broken one, but the power did not fluctuate at all. I drove the car back to Mike's place without incident.
Still baffled.
Still baffled.
06-28-2013, 08:51 PM
#28
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Seems like even if you had to:
1) replace the battery (new) - next step
2) replace the ground strap (new) - done
3) replace the positive cables coming forward from the battery (used) - eh...I traced the entire route and see nothing wrong with it. I'd like to test it for a break during one of the incidents, but haven't had the opportunity
4) replace the whole CE panel (used) - Uh, the CE panel cannot account for loss of all electrical power.
5) replace the front engine harness (new from 928 MS) - again, no evidence it is bad.
6) purchase a battery clamp (used) - stock battery clamp is now installed correctly
You would likely be in the project for only a $1000 or so and way ahead of getting rid or parting the car
1) replace the battery (new) - next step
2) replace the ground strap (new) - done
3) replace the positive cables coming forward from the battery (used) - eh...I traced the entire route and see nothing wrong with it. I'd like to test it for a break during one of the incidents, but haven't had the opportunity
4) replace the whole CE panel (used) - Uh, the CE panel cannot account for loss of all electrical power.
5) replace the front engine harness (new from 928 MS) - again, no evidence it is bad.
6) purchase a battery clamp (used) - stock battery clamp is now installed correctly
You would likely be in the project for only a $1000 or so and way ahead of getting rid or parting the car
06-29-2013, 01:11 AM
#30
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On 3) and 5) I was thinking oxidization between a terminal and a cable. If intermittent could be hard to see.
But in general my point is that this should be a solvable problem. Actually they pretty much all are if the body, paint, and interior are good, though some are much more complex than this one should be. Hopefully the clamp the correct battery correctly positioned has this solved.
But in general my point is that this should be a solvable problem. Actually they pretty much all are if the body, paint, and interior are good, though some are much more complex than this one should be. Hopefully the clamp the correct battery correctly positioned has this solved.