surgiblade

For 7 of the last 9 years the Porsche 928s4 WAS a dream to drive- handling, responsiveness, major comfort in sheepskin covered seats.;super high and low speed performance.

Now my wife says it is the original BAD Girlfriend. Love it, wanna kkeep iot but unreliable-

Have electrical gremlin- car sometimes does NOTHING on turning the ignition key Bill Ball replaced the ignition switch and it worked great for a while- then it repeated. Took car to shop for huge A/C leak, only to find my R12 system is an antique. Car did not start- mechanic brought battery to jump-nada, I opened the hatch, took out the spare and pump, opened the battery container, rubbed the + and - contacts with my thumb (NOTHING on them- muttered something about breaking up if NO start,and viola it started. Mechanics and Techs all shook their heads at what they SAW and said I have an electrical gremlin.

Since purchasing the car, I have had the timing belt and water pump done, replaced the leather dash,, replaced the stereo with Alpine which accepts I pod and other inputs and had the car painted.. When it starts, its a dream to drive-BUT there are these issues.

To maximize financial recovery and stay drop dead honest I am not sure next move-
Would like too get A/C roerkinh, flush out R121, replace dryer,load withR134- NUT still have a gremlin 3 good and one really great tech could not find.

Should I try to sell it as is or part it out- amazing alone what the recaro 7 position seats cost; engine has 100 K miles and is perfect. The prior owner
replaced all belts, hoses, and fluids when I bought it 9 yers ago/

Suggestions please ????

Thanks in advance-

mike

Mrmerlin

to cure the running issues I would replace the ground strap on the battery,
and the ignition relay on the CE panel,
as well as the starter relay

MainePorsche

+1 to what Stan (MrMerlin) said.
Would also do some standard housekeeping like CLEANING ALL THE GROUNDS. See 'New Visitor' thread at top of Forum page for their locations.
Prior owner replaced belts, hoses, fluids 9 years ago... I hope these have been looked at since then... sounds like car needs some TLC.
Would suggest to see Bill again. He knows the 928. He will keep the car honest to you.

Hilton

The cheapest way out is to do the bare minimum work so the car starts reliably, and sell it.

I'd start with Stan's (Mrmerlin) suggestion - replace the battery ground strap and the cheap generic relays, which should see it start reliably. Then wash it, vacuum the inside, and put it on ebay/craigslist and be done with it.

If it starts and drives, an auto 87 should be worth at least $7k. If you part it out, you could get probably $4k easily, and the rest will take time.. lots of time.

If its a 5-speed, it'll likely be worth $10k+.

And please tell us you've changed the coolant in the 9 years since you had the car?

Your problem is you're in California.. which means you're obliged to provide a smog certificate at the point of sale. So you either need to find a buyer outside state, or probebly spend more $$$ (e.g. new MAF) to get it through smog.

Nicole

Part of the equation is always the resale value of the car. In case of the 928, resale value diminishes quickly with any cosmetic issues. From there on, it becomes solely a labor of love.

You can keep these cars running forever, but it may make more sense to purchase a lower mileage example at some point. And those aren't really expensive, either.

FredR

Sad to say the harsh reality of owning any 928 is that it is a $100k+ car with bills proportionate to that. The number of examples that are fully up to date and have had the usual suspects replaced pre-emptively are few and far between and most examples probably on this list.

So, when you purchase one of these things you are in most cases buying a car for circa $10k with [in most cases] deferred maintenance bills of the same amount so, your $10k purchase is in reality a $20k purchase if you want it to run correctly.

Once you have gone through this list [I have previously posted such- as have many] - then you have a fair chance of having a reliable experience until things start going on the next cycle. Some things are age related, some use related and some on different time cycles. I think in terms of 5 year and 10 year cycles and the list is about 30 in number if I remember correctly. Thus I think in terms of $1k a year to run if and when everything is up to scratch and then we have the consumables like tires and batteries, brakes etc that are additive.

This is basically why resale values are as low as they are and in reality it is just a case of pot luck where in that cycle your 928 sits. Thus, if you have had 5 years of ownership, sum up the bills and try to sort out what the residual value is and if you get more than that consider yourself as having a good deal.

Bottom line- ownership of these vehicles is a passion first and a means to an end second and that has a price to go with it. Some owners are fortunate most less so, but the reality is that probablity favours the one with the knowledge. My PO lost $13k in just over a year on his capital outlay and spent something in the region of $10k in bills- $23k hole in his pocket and he barely had the thing on the road yet alone spend any time enjoying it- in short it was a nightmare for him.

After 5+ years of ownership of this GTS chassis [with my pampered/tuned S4 motor in it] I am now on the next cycle where I will shortly be looking at the timing belt, water pump, ignition leads etc. Just the way it is.

Hopefully the above puts some persepctive on ownership and hopefully may help you understand where you ft in the scheme of things in terms of "reasonable cost of ownership".

Best wishes whatever you decide to do.

Fred

Fogey1

This, which includes Wally's Annual Electrical PM:
http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/zelec_cleaning.txt

And post #33 from the New Visitors thread:

Electrical System Maintenance
https://rennlist.com/forums/2220328-post33.html

Where you'll also find this, inter alia:
http://members.rennlist.com/jerdmann...l.htm#anchor_2


If you know Bill Ball, you're pretty well hooked-in, but it always helps to have your location in your questions.

surgiblade

Thanks for the kind replies- Bill is having another look and we'll replace the relays and see if that keeps it running more reliably.

Am trying to find a shop to find A/C leak and flush out oil and replace with R134.

The 928 is more passion that simple transportation-however it is tiring to be far from home when it turns into a large paperweight.

mike

hacker-pschorr

Please don't part it out.

surgiblade

Need A/C here June- September, am tempted to getting it running reliably (I e starting every time I turn on the ignition, without the open the trunk etc. ritual) and keeping it as a Oct-May car . There really is no substitute- hell the most comfortable chair I own is the sheepskin covered drivers seat. I has passed smog test q 2 years. Haven't the heart to part-out.

mike

Bill Ball

We did that, but as described in another thread, this car loses ALL electrical power - STONE DEAD, as if the battery is removed from the car. So, it's not a matter of ignition or starter. Sometimes we might find a few volts being delivered, so the clock will work but nothing else. The battery itself checks out fine during that time. Then a few minutes later, all electrical power is back and the car is fine for anywhere from days to months. Besides replacing the ground strap, I've checked all the positive cables. Also, the car sat at a fairly smart automotive electrician's shop for several weeks. He could not reproduce the problem, found nothing wrong and had no specific suggestions.

A few months ago, I was driving Mike's car to my house to do further tests. I got 3 miles down the freeway and it suddenly lost all electrical power. I got towed off the highway, went to Mike's house, and by the time we got back to the car, it started and ran fine. It had never done that before (lost electrical power while driving). This incident would seem to indicate more than a problem with the battery or battery cables.

Now, we have not replaced the battery because it has never tested other than fine, even when the car had no electrical power or only a few volts. But, who knows, it may be some rare voodoo battery problem. I keep thinking there's a hidden fault in one of the main positive cable sections, but I just haven't found it yet.

FredR

Bill,

I once experienced something similar on my late S4 but had no problem diagnosing it! After I pulled to the side of the road first thing I did was to pull the battery cover lid- or try to! Bloody thing was welded shut. Chump brain here forgot to fasten down the battery, must have gone over a slight bump or whatever and "Shazzam"- total blackout at 140 kph at night time! Just maneuvering to safety was a nightmare as the motorway was packed at the time, no indicators, no windwos no power just gravity to help me. To get the cover open I had to drill the cover with pilot holes until the weldment was breached.

Noting the ridiculous proximity of the multifarious connections to the lid, is it possible your friends car is temporarily arching to the lid, not enough to do what happened to me but perhaps enough to kill power and send everything haywire temporarily? Unlikely I would think but since that incident I always insert a piece of rubber sheet [unravelled inner tube type of thing] between the terminals and the battery cover/framework. Is there any sign of arching in there? Not the kind of thing one usually looks for.

Regards

Fred

Bill Ball

Fred:

Thanks for the suggestions. No evidence of arcing, at least at the cover. Even with the cover off, the car can be dead. It is possibly coincidental, but manipulating the battery/cables seems to "fix" it sometimes. I did clean up the posts, thinking I had found the problem, only to have it continue to fail. I thought it could be a broken post, but can't find any evidence of that (such as losing voltage when torquing the post).

FredR

Bill,

Both you and the owner have my sympathy. The only other thing I can think of would be with the front harness. I recently found part of mine literally falling to pieces adjacent to the 14 pin connector and apparently it gets worse under the engine. The only thing I can suggest in this case would be to run separate [new] cables from the alternator through to the post and possibly the battery to the alternator [ I understand the latter is less prone to problems.

Either way- best of luck.

Regards

Fred

Mrmerlin

Bill, with the info provided I would replace the battery.

UNLESS you can find a spot on the cable connections thats corroded or cut ,
the battery is the only thing that could have a possible open .