LAGUNA SECA -SCCA ITE / American V8 supercar race this saturday 6.8.13
#16
Ok, do tell...............whats better. they were much better than the Pagid blacks, but I did boill the brake fluid in the race with them. more pressure for near the same stopping? more heat to the calipers? don't know.
So, Ill make them work, and put some higher temp fluid in there. maybe stoptech 600 .
so, whats the better pad????? I really wanted to do the DTC70s from Hawk.
Mk
#17
fuel and air were still on the real fat side. but same as day one. 12:1 and then down under 11 and near 10.5:1 from 5500 to 6400rpm. I still think the quick answer would be to get the 24lb injectors and bump the fuel pressure up from the paltry, 42psi as it stands today. (remember, I had 70psi with this stock system, but the stock 19lb S4 injectors at 335rwhp.at its best. and 12.5:1 fuel air. makes me think there is some power lurking there
#19
#20
MK
10.5 from 5500 UP.......................that is silly....I'm amazed it even runs at all...... You REALLY SERIOUSLY need sharktuning.....we don't even need a dyno to do it.....install a wideband (you can borrow mine) and get jeff to ride with you......my wideband (PLX) data logs......super easy....
For example....on my tiny 4.5L engine...when I got it the timing was set at 30' flat from 3000 up.....fuel was FAT at 11.4...I leaned it down to around 12 and got 243-257..... I increased timing to 31 from 3000-5250 and 34' from 5500 up...now I have 265-289 massive gains....my AFR still is quite rich...the dyno (tailpipe) showed 13 in midrange and 12.4 up top...my header WB02 shows about 12.8 midrange and 11.8-12.0 at 6k....so I have more to gain as well.... my plugs read near perfect, possibly low on timing-temperature.... I think can either increase timing up high OR lean it out.....
However the S4 engine, especially a stroker like yours is VERY different...high compression engines require LESS timing...keep in mind mine is only rated at 9-1 with cranking pressures (factoring cam timing) of maybe 155psi...so quite low....even the BMEP for my engine is quite modest...184psi at torque peak and 159psi at HP peak....
Enough playing around with BS tunes......its time to invest in a proper tune for your engine..... my guess.....400whp EASY.....
10.5 from 5500 UP.......................that is silly....I'm amazed it even runs at all...... You REALLY SERIOUSLY need sharktuning.....we don't even need a dyno to do it.....install a wideband (you can borrow mine) and get jeff to ride with you......my wideband (PLX) data logs......super easy....
For example....on my tiny 4.5L engine...when I got it the timing was set at 30' flat from 3000 up.....fuel was FAT at 11.4...I leaned it down to around 12 and got 243-257..... I increased timing to 31 from 3000-5250 and 34' from 5500 up...now I have 265-289 massive gains....my AFR still is quite rich...the dyno (tailpipe) showed 13 in midrange and 12.4 up top...my header WB02 shows about 12.8 midrange and 11.8-12.0 at 6k....so I have more to gain as well.... my plugs read near perfect, possibly low on timing-temperature.... I think can either increase timing up high OR lean it out.....
However the S4 engine, especially a stroker like yours is VERY different...high compression engines require LESS timing...keep in mind mine is only rated at 9-1 with cranking pressures (factoring cam timing) of maybe 155psi...so quite low....even the BMEP for my engine is quite modest...184psi at torque peak and 159psi at HP peak....
Enough playing around with BS tunes......its time to invest in a proper tune for your engine..... my guess.....400whp EASY.....
Oh, while I was there, I was feeling that the engine wasn't reving up as quick from 5k to 6k. times were pretty good considering I wasn't hitting my acceleration marks on the track. (turn 11 to start finish just before redline). so I went to the dyno at the track...... the same Dyno that Brian uses, as its portable. So..................drum roll please.........................
372 rwhp. almost exactly the same as the week we put the motor in! with in 1hp! and within 1ftlb of torque 401rwt. not bad for a motor with 5 years of racing on it. (55 race days to be exact)
fuel and air were still on the real fat side. but same as day one. 12:1 and then down under 11 and near 10.5:1 from 5500 to 6400rpm. I still think the quick answer would be to get the 24lb injectors and bump the fuel pressure up from the paltry, 42psi as it stands today. (remember, I had 70psi with this stock system, but the stock 19lb S4 injectors at 335rwhp.at its best. and 12.5:1 fuel air. makes me think there is some power lurking there
372 rwhp. almost exactly the same as the week we put the motor in! with in 1hp! and within 1ftlb of torque 401rwt. not bad for a motor with 5 years of racing on it. (55 race days to be exact)
fuel and air were still on the real fat side. but same as day one. 12:1 and then down under 11 and near 10.5:1 from 5500 to 6400rpm. I still think the quick answer would be to get the 24lb injectors and bump the fuel pressure up from the paltry, 42psi as it stands today. (remember, I had 70psi with this stock system, but the stock 19lb S4 injectors at 335rwhp.at its best. and 12.5:1 fuel air. makes me think there is some power lurking there
#21
MK
10.5 from 5500 UP.......................that is silly....I'm amazed it even runs at all...... You REALLY SERIOUSLY need sharktuning.....we don't even need a dyno to do it.....install a wideband (you can borrow mine) and get jeff to ride with you......my wideband (PLX) data logs......super easy....
For example....on my tiny 4.5L engine...when I got it the timing was set at 30' flat from 3000 up.....fuel was FAT at 11.4...I leaned it down to around 12 and got 243-257..... I increased timing to 31 from 3000-5250 and 34' from 5500 up...now I have 265-289 massive gains....my AFR still is quite rich...the dyno (tailpipe) showed 13 in midrange and 12.4 up top...my header WB02 shows about 12.8 midrange and 11.8-12.0 at 6k....so I have more to gain as well.... my plugs read near perfect, possibly low on timing-temperature.... I think can either increase timing up high OR lean it out.....
However the S4 engine, especially a stroker like yours is VERY different...high compression engines require LESS timing...keep in mind mine is only rated at 9-1 with cranking pressures (factoring cam timing) of maybe 155psi...so quite low....even the BMEP for my engine is quite modest...184psi at torque peak and 159psi at HP peak....
Enough playing around with BS tunes......its time to invest in a proper tune for your engine..... my guess.....400whp EASY.....
10.5 from 5500 UP.......................that is silly....I'm amazed it even runs at all...... You REALLY SERIOUSLY need sharktuning.....we don't even need a dyno to do it.....install a wideband (you can borrow mine) and get jeff to ride with you......my wideband (PLX) data logs......super easy....
For example....on my tiny 4.5L engine...when I got it the timing was set at 30' flat from 3000 up.....fuel was FAT at 11.4...I leaned it down to around 12 and got 243-257..... I increased timing to 31 from 3000-5250 and 34' from 5500 up...now I have 265-289 massive gains....my AFR still is quite rich...the dyno (tailpipe) showed 13 in midrange and 12.4 up top...my header WB02 shows about 12.8 midrange and 11.8-12.0 at 6k....so I have more to gain as well.... my plugs read near perfect, possibly low on timing-temperature.... I think can either increase timing up high OR lean it out.....
However the S4 engine, especially a stroker like yours is VERY different...high compression engines require LESS timing...keep in mind mine is only rated at 9-1 with cranking pressures (factoring cam timing) of maybe 155psi...so quite low....even the BMEP for my engine is quite modest...184psi at torque peak and 159psi at HP peak....
Enough playing around with BS tunes......its time to invest in a proper tune for your engine..... my guess.....400whp EASY.....
anyway, sure, i think 400rwhp sould be atainable, but just dont know where it will come from. anderson and fan both had the bigger valves and cams when they were making the 410 to 420rwhp. they didnt have any tuning either.
#22
as you might remember, i cant really do a shark tune. I dont have the ECU that is stock and has the right connections. however, we did take it for a ride .(with bill) and we could see where i was at mixture wise. its just bad 5500 to 6500. should be pretty easy to tune out that fatness. i could go a little lower on pressure with the fuel regs, but below 43psi, might not be the best. i would rather go to the 24lb injectors and maybe put the pressure back to stock 50psi ish. Remember, with 19lbers , i got to 12.5:1 and used 70psi to do it and got 335rwhp out of a 5 liter. Sure, the sharktune is the way, but in this narrow range, its pretty easy to get the ratios in the right range of about 12.5:1, without other areas being too far off. the part throtttle stuff is handled well by the closed loop system (cept for idle if it is way rich) and i dont need any WOT performance at anything lower than 4500rpm. I dont think im too far off there, as its still 400rwt at 4500, and i think the most anderson got was 420 back then! I dont know what kind of timing we need at the top end to optimize HP, but if we need to advance, that might be hard with my current ECU system
I do have a GT computer handy.... heck,, maybe plug that think in and see what happens.
#23
For example....on my tiny 4.5L engine...when I got it the timing was set at 30' flat from 3000 up.....fuel was FAT at 11.4...I leaned it down to around 12 and got 243-257..... I increased timing to 31 from 3000-5250 and 34' from 5500 up...now I have 265-289 massive gains....my AFR still is quite rich...the dyno (tailpipe) showed 13 in midrange and 12.4 up top...my header WB02 shows about 12.8 midrange and 11.8-12.0 at 6k....so I have more to gain as well...QUOTE]
hard to imagine that you can get 4 degrees of timing advance and get
30hp gain. doesnt make a lot of sense.
(you said you went from 30 degrees to 34 degrees up top)
hard to imagine that you can get 4 degrees of timing advance and get
30hp gain. doesnt make a lot of sense.
(you said you went from 30 degrees to 34 degrees up top)
#24
certainly just the displacement gain from 5 liter to 6.4 liter of 28% should gain close to the same power, which would be 420rwhp vs the 335 i once had. (even at a low of 320 would yeild 410)
sure its not a direct conversion, but should be in that range.
im really temped to get the 24lbers and give it a try.
mk
sure its not a direct conversion, but should be in that range.
im really temped to get the 24lbers and give it a try.
mk
#25
The thing is Mark..you are using a 928 ECU, right?
It has certain assumptions on pressure and flow, that when you dork with fuel pressure, you screw it all up.
Basically, you can "tune" your low end, or high end, but because assumptions in how the universe works in the ECU are no longer true, you wont ever get what you need, done.
Catch us up..what LH is in this car?
#26
The thing is Mark..you are using a 928 ECU, right?
It has certain assumptions on pressure and flow, that when you dork with fuel pressure, you screw it all up.
Basically, you can "tune" your low end, or high end, but because assumptions in how the universe works in the ECU are no longer true, you wont ever get what you need, done.
Catch us up..what LH is in this car?
the ECU LH box is funky. custom chip (bill knows). the EZK is bone stock S4. I think the GT computer I have access to is just the EZK .
So, im thinking, if I can just tune the high end, I will be in good shape. but I wonder what the gains would be from going from 10:1 to 12.5:1 ? maybe 10 to 20hp?? might be worth a try. or I dump the holbert ECU and go with the stock S4 set up.
#27
So..whats stopping you from putting a proper LH in it?
Same plugs, same sensors..just..what you have now was a good idea 20yrs ago?
Sharktuner is light years ahead of what youve got.
Same plugs, same sensors..just..what you have now was a good idea 20yrs ago?
Sharktuner is light years ahead of what youve got.
#28
Mark:
Yes, a smaller rate injector and higher pressure would be a good idea. Although 40 PSI is still good, dropping pressure further to lean out the mixture is not good, so you're right. The gains from getting it to 12 or 12.5 may not be huge but it would still be worth the effort.
I remember doing some freeway blasts and looking at mixtures, which seemed good, so I guess we got some aspect of the Sharktuner running. I recall your harness was goofy, so we never got it fully working, but my memory is not clear on just what we did. W/o Sharktuning, all you've got is fuel pressure and injectors to play with.
Yes, a smaller rate injector and higher pressure would be a good idea. Although 40 PSI is still good, dropping pressure further to lean out the mixture is not good, so you're right. The gains from getting it to 12 or 12.5 may not be huge but it would still be worth the effort.
I remember doing some freeway blasts and looking at mixtures, which seemed good, so I guess we got some aspect of the Sharktuner running. I recall your harness was goofy, so we never got it fully working, but my memory is not clear on just what we did. W/o Sharktuning, all you've got is fuel pressure and injectors to play with.
#29
Mark:
Yes, a smaller rate injector and higher pressure would be a good idea. Although 40 PSI is still good, dropping pressure further to lean out teh mixture is not good, so you're right.
I remember doing some freeway blasts and looking at mixtures, which seemed good, so I guess we got some aspect of the Sharktuner running. I recall your harness was goofy, so we never got it fully working, but my memory is not clear on just what we did. W/o Sharktuning, all you've got is fuel pressure and injectors to play with.
Yes, a smaller rate injector and higher pressure would be a good idea. Although 40 PSI is still good, dropping pressure further to lean out teh mixture is not good, so you're right.
I remember doing some freeway blasts and looking at mixtures, which seemed good, so I guess we got some aspect of the Sharktuner running. I recall your harness was goofy, so we never got it fully working, but my memory is not clear on just what we did. W/o Sharktuning, all you've got is fuel pressure and injectors to play with.
It might be time!
#30
I was talking to Brian who said his car runs 280ish rwhp with a pretty decent fuel air mixture of near 12:1, and only has 37psi fuel pressure.
I do remember tuning my buddies S4 6 liter who had near 15psi and ran ok, but was still running kind of fat for reasons we still don't quite understand.
anyway, Im at 43psi and can easily drop my pressure down to 37psi. maybe that might clear up some richness at the top end. if I can get the mixture in the 12s from 5500 to 6500rpm, where else can I gain Hp by tuning, even with a shark tuner? timing??
I might have to check out running another brain so I can do a shark tunen and see what the potential is of the 6.4 liter with the stock stuff on top of it.
I do remember tuning my buddies S4 6 liter who had near 15psi and ran ok, but was still running kind of fat for reasons we still don't quite understand.
anyway, Im at 43psi and can easily drop my pressure down to 37psi. maybe that might clear up some richness at the top end. if I can get the mixture in the 12s from 5500 to 6500rpm, where else can I gain Hp by tuning, even with a shark tuner? timing??
I might have to check out running another brain so I can do a shark tunen and see what the potential is of the 6.4 liter with the stock stuff on top of it.