928 OC Presidential Election - Vote for AO!
08-15-2012, 07:26 AM
#61
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James has posted in the 928 OC forum, where *you* have stated such discussions should take place in the past.
08-15-2012, 07:32 AM
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The point I am trying to make is one of the guys I thought I would meet at the 928 Owners Club International Convention was President Stan Shaw but he was a NO SHOW. For me that is like President Obama not showing up for the State of the Union or on a lighter note Roger Goodell not showing up for the NFL draft.
I would suggest your analogy is a bit off thought, a state of the union address is a function of the president, while attending all the parties is not. The OCIC events are wonderful, and require tremendous effort by the volunteers, but there is no *official* 928 Owners Club business that occurs at them. Nobody on the board requested a formal meeting, for discussions, etc. As I would have found a way to teleconference if they did.
Like all the 928 Owners Club sponsored events, the OCIC is an event put on by the organizers for those that enjoy such an event. Of the 928 Owners Club 600+ members, only @50 attended the OCIC, less then 10%.
08-15-2012, 07:34 AM
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To reiterate, this is *Rennlist*, not the appropriate place for official 928 OC discussions.
08-15-2012, 07:38 AM
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Some people have software/firewalls that cause them issues. The answer is, and has always been 1978-1995, and it works many times per week for new users. I have always been supportive of those with issues, of which 99% do not have any, it is standard software used throughout the 'net.
08-15-2012, 08:52 AM
#66
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stan
I guess after your responses to the above , you are happy you are stepping down....seems we are signing up in droves to join the owners club and all is well!!!
I really expected participation in forums like rennlist to be just as active at the owners club site but that place is just dead...it took days to get a response from a post and had I not found rennlist, I would have sold my car yrs ago.too bad the info at the owners club couldn't just be merged here and we could all be more happy together.
united we stand....
I really expected participation in forums like rennlist to be just as active at the owners club site but that place is just dead...it took days to get a response from a post and had I not found rennlist, I would have sold my car yrs ago.too bad the info at the owners club couldn't just be merged here and we could all be more happy together.
united we stand....
08-15-2012, 09:25 AM
#67
Stan helped me out after I contacted him through FACEBOOK!. OK thanks Stan. I work for Blackbook Online as the network administrator and I can tell you if we found out our app didn't work for even 1% of people no one would go home until it was fixed. As the man who administers many firewalls I can tell you it's not a firewall problem. It might be a browser problem since I use Firefox, but it's YOUR problem as the one running the website to make sure it works for everyone.
OK enough of that. Thank you Stan for the hard and mostly thankless work. I hope I can help make things a little better for everyone with my experience. Just ask.
Jim
OK enough of that. Thank you Stan for the hard and mostly thankless work. I hope I can help make things a little better for everyone with my experience. Just ask.
Jim
08-15-2012, 10:02 AM
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David,
I am happy to clear the air. Most clubs expect the president to find and develop the next president. When a new membership chair had to abandon the post, James took on a very difficult transition and stuck with it. I tried to entice him to run for president a year ago, but he said it was not the right time for him. I have always assured James that I will be there for him, and that is really the base of my support for him.
With regard to my running the nominations and the elections, that is because otherwise it won't get done. I have tested the process in the past, and if I do nothing, nobody else has stepped up. The nominations and elections are completely transparent to the board, and all nominations and election ballots are provided to two others on the board at the same time that I received them. After each process, I tabulate the results and the other board members confirm them. There is nothing untoward there at all, and considering how long you have known me, I would be surprised if you thought anything else.
Kind of funny you talk about growth as though it hasn't happened. I would suggest that 50% growth under James as membership chair, and myself as president will be big shoes for someone to fill.
Unfortunately like many you seem to understand the attention that members expect on an ongoing basis, and while that may be administrative, the question is "who" will be doing that with Andrew as president. Having someone go to 928 events and making pretty speeches will not change much, since it is just preaching to the choir. I have gone to many events and unfortunately there have not been any new volunteers as a result, except to those events, which is important, but those events will not exist without the structure and support of the club on an ongoing basis.
Of that 50% growth, effectively *all* of them are due to the Internet presence that I have grown, with the support of some, including James, as well as the board moderators Brad and Austin. Those new members are not joining because of the OCIC, where I am told we picked up *2* new members.
I think there is a small group that think the events are everything, when in fact the person who buys a 928 today, to enjoy, wants an ongoing entity to get support from, and that is what the Roadside Assistance Forum and the Technical Library were developed for.
Let me know forget that we are also developing a tool loaning program, including a fender rolling tool and the 928 diag tool. We have ideas for more tools, but we lack volunteers to handle the process of mailing them out, taking deposits, etc.
It would be nice if all this critical input resulted in more volunteers, but we had these same discussions two years ago when Andrew burst onto the scene with his many ideas (some of which were already implemented). For example, do you know how many people have offered to do the 928 Journal in many different ways, but then decided it was too much effort?
With the "administrator" as a President, you will have nothing, unless the president brings an "administrator" with him, and Andrew has not stated that he can or will. For that matter Andrew hasn't expressed the slightest interest in the inner workings of the 928 OC. He just posted in the 928 OC forum, that he isn't there much. Of course that he let his membership lapse for 6 months and only renewed to run for President is quite telling, isn't it.
I owe you eternal gratitude for you, and Leonard Laub, allowing me to build the 928 OC from the ashes it was. Not to mention for providing me technical advice on fixing my GT. With great respect, Peace
I am happy to clear the air. Most clubs expect the president to find and develop the next president. When a new membership chair had to abandon the post, James took on a very difficult transition and stuck with it. I tried to entice him to run for president a year ago, but he said it was not the right time for him. I have always assured James that I will be there for him, and that is really the base of my support for him.
With regard to my running the nominations and the elections, that is because otherwise it won't get done. I have tested the process in the past, and if I do nothing, nobody else has stepped up. The nominations and elections are completely transparent to the board, and all nominations and election ballots are provided to two others on the board at the same time that I received them. After each process, I tabulate the results and the other board members confirm them. There is nothing untoward there at all, and considering how long you have known me, I would be surprised if you thought anything else.
Kind of funny you talk about growth as though it hasn't happened. I would suggest that 50% growth under James as membership chair, and myself as president will be big shoes for someone to fill.
Unfortunately like many you seem to understand the attention that members expect on an ongoing basis, and while that may be administrative, the question is "who" will be doing that with Andrew as president. Having someone go to 928 events and making pretty speeches will not change much, since it is just preaching to the choir. I have gone to many events and unfortunately there have not been any new volunteers as a result, except to those events, which is important, but those events will not exist without the structure and support of the club on an ongoing basis.
Of that 50% growth, effectively *all* of them are due to the Internet presence that I have grown, with the support of some, including James, as well as the board moderators Brad and Austin. Those new members are not joining because of the OCIC, where I am told we picked up *2* new members.
I think there is a small group that think the events are everything, when in fact the person who buys a 928 today, to enjoy, wants an ongoing entity to get support from, and that is what the Roadside Assistance Forum and the Technical Library were developed for.
Let me know forget that we are also developing a tool loaning program, including a fender rolling tool and the 928 diag tool. We have ideas for more tools, but we lack volunteers to handle the process of mailing them out, taking deposits, etc.
It would be nice if all this critical input resulted in more volunteers, but we had these same discussions two years ago when Andrew burst onto the scene with his many ideas (some of which were already implemented). For example, do you know how many people have offered to do the 928 Journal in many different ways, but then decided it was too much effort?
With the "administrator" as a President, you will have nothing, unless the president brings an "administrator" with him, and Andrew has not stated that he can or will. For that matter Andrew hasn't expressed the slightest interest in the inner workings of the 928 OC. He just posted in the 928 OC forum, that he isn't there much. Of course that he let his membership lapse for 6 months and only renewed to run for President is quite telling, isn't it.
I owe you eternal gratitude for you, and Leonard Laub, allowing me to build the 928 OC from the ashes it was. Not to mention for providing me technical advice on fixing my GT. With great respect, Peace
One could also wonder how and why the current President has been "working with James for over a year, planning the transition"...YET, the nomination process didn't start until 7/7 2012(last month) ,... and the official nominations announced on 8/8/2012 (LAST WEEK).
Oh, one other fact, Stan is one of the 3 people heading up the 928OC nomination committee.
BTW, not making any accusations, or slinging anything, just passing on some interesting facts to go with the other "facts" posted.
Sadly for James and no reflection upon him, and also of no fault of his own, his nomination is IMHO "tainted" by Stan's own posting of the facts above. To me personally it now feels "rigged"...and unless Stan can explain away his statements of working with James for the last year to be his replacement a year BEFORE the Nomination process,...if I were James and for the good of the 928OC I would withdraw my nomination. This might seem extreme to some, but if you know your 928OC history, I did something similar for the greater good of the 928OC many years ago, so I am not suggesting James to do anything that I wouldn't or haven't done myself for the 928OC.
As one of the Founders of the 928OC, I think it is way past time for some New blood in control of the OC. Stan has done a great job with administration and forum stuff, but IMHO a Club like the OC needs a "Visible Leader" more than an Administrator or webmaster..heck we have Gary Knox holding the purse strings and it doesn't get any better than that for fiscal responsibility(Gary is one of the few people I know that I wouldn't blink at letting him control any finances)...but the OC needs more to grow as it should have after all these years. It needs a "presence" in the 928 Community as a whole, not just on the 928OC Forum on occasion, but on all the most popular 928 Forums and at a minimum some(or most) of the Major 928 Events....and certainly at most (if not ALL) OCIC Events.
FWIW, the 928OC was never founded to be a Discussion Forum or chat room, we the founders never even imagined this as the purpose for the Club. We knew it would be ridiculous to think we could ever change where the online 928 Community "hangs out"..the founders all met on Porsche Fans e-mail list and we never intended to replace that community, we meet to ADD TO IT and be a Strong Voice within the 928 Community, not overtake or replace it.
Going forward, whoever becomes the next 928OC President needs to EMBRACE Rennlist and/or any other place where the bulk of the 928 Community exists....not distance themselves from it, or even worse alienate themselves from where ever the 928 Community exists online AND at Events in person.
The 928OC was created to assist and make 928 Ownership easier and more fun for ALL 928 Owners...not "divide and conquer" the 928 Community...but to become a part of the community as an ASSET to ALL 928 Owners, be they 928OC members or not.
I also think the 928OC Bylaws should be amended ASAP to have term limits for officers, 4 years max would be a good starting point of discussion. I personally call on all of the officers and trustees to move immediately to make this amendment a part of the upcoming voting/election process.
Sincerely,
Oh, one other fact, Stan is one of the 3 people heading up the 928OC nomination committee.
BTW, not making any accusations, or slinging anything, just passing on some interesting facts to go with the other "facts" posted.
Sadly for James and no reflection upon him, and also of no fault of his own, his nomination is IMHO "tainted" by Stan's own posting of the facts above. To me personally it now feels "rigged"...and unless Stan can explain away his statements of working with James for the last year to be his replacement a year BEFORE the Nomination process,...if I were James and for the good of the 928OC I would withdraw my nomination. This might seem extreme to some, but if you know your 928OC history, I did something similar for the greater good of the 928OC many years ago, so I am not suggesting James to do anything that I wouldn't or haven't done myself for the 928OC.
As one of the Founders of the 928OC, I think it is way past time for some New blood in control of the OC. Stan has done a great job with administration and forum stuff, but IMHO a Club like the OC needs a "Visible Leader" more than an Administrator or webmaster..heck we have Gary Knox holding the purse strings and it doesn't get any better than that for fiscal responsibility(Gary is one of the few people I know that I wouldn't blink at letting him control any finances)...but the OC needs more to grow as it should have after all these years. It needs a "presence" in the 928 Community as a whole, not just on the 928OC Forum on occasion, but on all the most popular 928 Forums and at a minimum some(or most) of the Major 928 Events....and certainly at most (if not ALL) OCIC Events.
FWIW, the 928OC was never founded to be a Discussion Forum or chat room, we the founders never even imagined this as the purpose for the Club. We knew it would be ridiculous to think we could ever change where the online 928 Community "hangs out"..the founders all met on Porsche Fans e-mail list and we never intended to replace that community, we meet to ADD TO IT and be a Strong Voice within the 928 Community, not overtake or replace it.
Going forward, whoever becomes the next 928OC President needs to EMBRACE Rennlist and/or any other place where the bulk of the 928 Community exists....not distance themselves from it, or even worse alienate themselves from where ever the 928 Community exists online AND at Events in person.
The 928OC was created to assist and make 928 Ownership easier and more fun for ALL 928 Owners...not "divide and conquer" the 928 Community...but to become a part of the community as an ASSET to ALL 928 Owners, be they 928OC members or not.
I also think the 928OC Bylaws should be amended ASAP to have term limits for officers, 4 years max would be a good starting point of discussion. I personally call on all of the officers and trustees to move immediately to make this amendment a part of the upcoming voting/election process.
Sincerely,
08-15-2012, 10:07 AM
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Hi Jim,
With a volunteer organization, things are not done at the same level as in a paid profession. Don't you think I cringe every time I look at the 928 OC website? Since the application is shrink wrapped software, the idea would be to upgrade it. It would just take the time and expertise of someone. If you know someone that has the time to do so, just let me know!
Perhaps that is a good question to ask *both* of the presidential nominees. How they will support the 928 OC Internet presence. I suspect Andrew will just use Rennlist as he does not participate with the 700+ users on the 928 OC forum. Whereas James can simply ask me to do it, and I will, since I will have so much more time!
In the meantime, I am there to help people get through the little issues they might have when the occur.
With a volunteer organization, things are not done at the same level as in a paid profession. Don't you think I cringe every time I look at the 928 OC website? Since the application is shrink wrapped software, the idea would be to upgrade it. It would just take the time and expertise of someone. If you know someone that has the time to do so, just let me know!
Perhaps that is a good question to ask *both* of the presidential nominees. How they will support the 928 OC Internet presence. I suspect Andrew will just use Rennlist as he does not participate with the 700+ users on the 928 OC forum. Whereas James can simply ask me to do it, and I will, since I will have so much more time!
In the meantime, I am there to help people get through the little issues they might have when the occur.
Stan helped me out after I contacted him through FACEBOOK!. OK thanks Stan. I work for Blackbook Online as the network administrator and I can tell you if we found out our app didn't work for even 1% of people no one would go home until it was fixed. As the man who administers many firewalls I can tell you it's not a firewall problem. It might be a browser problem since I use Firefox, but it's YOUR problem as the one running the website to make sure it works for everyone.
OK enough of that. Thank you Stan for the hard and mostly thankless work. I hope I can help make things a little better for everyone with my experience. Just ask.
Jim
OK enough of that. Thank you Stan for the hard and mostly thankless work. I hope I can help make things a little better for everyone with my experience. Just ask.
Jim
08-15-2012, 10:12 AM
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Yes, Andy, I am looking forward to stepping done.
No, there has not been any surge in new memberships since the nominations. The growth has been over the past 2 years, due to a number of factors, certainly the programs that we have been developing, as well as James outreach.
Sounds like you are talking about some distant past experience with the 928 OC forum. As administrator, I get notified of all new posts, and there are also two moderators that monitor the forums, so I have not heard of anyone getting overlooked. It could happen, but I am not aware of any such issue in many years.
No, there has not been any surge in new memberships since the nominations. The growth has been over the past 2 years, due to a number of factors, certainly the programs that we have been developing, as well as James outreach.
Sounds like you are talking about some distant past experience with the 928 OC forum. As administrator, I get notified of all new posts, and there are also two moderators that monitor the forums, so I have not heard of anyone getting overlooked. It could happen, but I am not aware of any such issue in many years.
I guess after your responses to the above , you are happy you are stepping down....seems we are signing up in droves to join the owners club and all is well!!!
I really expected participation in forums like rennlist to be just as active at the owners club site but that place is just dead...it took days to get a response from a post and had I not found rennlist, I would have sold my car yrs ago.too bad the info at the owners club couldn't just be merged here and we could all be more happy together.
united we stand....
I really expected participation in forums like rennlist to be just as active at the owners club site but that place is just dead...it took days to get a response from a post and had I not found rennlist, I would have sold my car yrs ago.too bad the info at the owners club couldn't just be merged here and we could all be more happy together.
united we stand....
08-15-2012, 10:15 AM
#71
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I can understand, it seems we only have critics of the volunteers from those who have not volunteered. I have found that true in many organizations, often there are people who stand on the sideline and tell those doing the work how they should do the work. Those critics are not big on getting in the trenches though, and bystanders hear the critics, but don't see the people in the trenches.
08-15-2012, 10:38 AM
#72
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I guess after your responses to the above , you are happy you are stepping down....seems we are signing up in droves to join the owners club and all is well!!!
I really expected participation in forums like rennlist to be just as active at the owners club site but that place is just dead...it took days to get a response from a post and had I not found rennlist, I would have sold my car yrs ago.too bad the info at the owners club couldn't just be merged here and we could all be more happy together.
united we stand....
I really expected participation in forums like rennlist to be just as active at the owners club site but that place is just dead...it took days to get a response from a post and had I not found rennlist, I would have sold my car yrs ago.too bad the info at the owners club couldn't just be merged here and we could all be more happy together.
united we stand....
Please understand that this negativity is not what the 928OC is, or ever was about..it isn't even about Stan personally. IMHO, the root of the issue is basically one person having to deal with most, if not sometimes all of the responsibility of running the OC for way too long. This is why I feel it it is important(if not vital) that there be term limits for 928OC Officers.
Please don't misinterpret my frustrations with how things have been going with the 928OC the past few years with anything personal against Stan, James or any one person at the 928OC. It is pure and simple an obvious problem of the same people staying in power/control for so long (either voluntarily or due to no other choice) that they become numb, if not cynical, to the core reason for the 928OC's existence...and worse the indications that those in Control of the Club are narrowing it's focus to only support those already in "control"...this is dangerous spiral that WILL signal the end of any "Member type Club".
Stan stepped up many years ago, and if I recall correctly when no one else would, to do his best to take over the reigns of the 928OC. There is no doubt Stan has worked his a$$ off to keep the OC alive today and has sacrificed countless hours of his personal time to do so. I and others who care about the 928OC can never thank him enough for that.
BUT, I feel strongly that if one single person is, for whatever reason, kept in that position, or any position of control in Club for so long.....it becomes a simple situation of "burn-out" and is not healthy for the good of the Club(or the person). If you have never been in a position like this with a Club you can't imagine what it is like. Everyone wants something done or changed, and it can be a continuous "whine fest"...but as I mentioned before so few will actually step up and help on a consistent basis....if at all.
This is why I feel it is vital to have strict term limits for Officers and by gosh if no members will step up and run for these positions then the Club should die off...period. It should not be left up to Stan's personal commitment to the 928OC (of which I have never had a doubt) to stay this long in such a tiring position that is purely voluntary and has no compensation other than a pat on the back...but usually more often is "thanked" with biitch'n and moaning. This is not good for the Club and certainly not good for the person.
I have known Stan for a LONG time and he has shown himself over and over to be a good friend to many people, myself included, and I have only been expressing my frustrations at the situation and what it has done over time, not at the man personally.
After keeping all of this frustration bottled up for some many years, and even being on the receiving end of it on occasion....and then seeing what has transpired in just this thread I could no longer be silent. Here we are at a point in time at a real crossroad where 2 worthy people have stepped up to take over the 928OC and I could not stand by and let the build up of many years of frustrations taint or create negativity surrounding what could and should be a fair even handed Membership election..without "inside" preference and influence.
So in my own frustration I probably said everything wrong, but still stand on the principle of what I was attempting to get across...and Stan, again, it is not a personal reflection upon you in any way. I do apologize to you for it coming across that way.
Sincerely,
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08-15-2012, 10:46 AM
#73
Hi Jim,
With a volunteer organization, things are not done at the same level as in a paid profession. Don't you think I cringe every time I look at the 928 OC website? Since the application is shrink wrapped software, the idea would be to upgrade it. It would just take the time and expertise of someone. If you know someone that has the time to do so, just let me know!
Perhaps that is a good question to ask *both* of the presidential nominees. How they will support the 928 OC Internet presence. I suspect Andrew will just use Rennlist as he does not participate with the 700+ users on the 928 OC forum. Whereas James can simply ask me to do it, and I will, since I will have so much more time!
In the meantime, I am there to help people get through the little issues they might have when the occur.
With a volunteer organization, things are not done at the same level as in a paid profession. Don't you think I cringe every time I look at the 928 OC website? Since the application is shrink wrapped software, the idea would be to upgrade it. It would just take the time and expertise of someone. If you know someone that has the time to do so, just let me know!
Perhaps that is a good question to ask *both* of the presidential nominees. How they will support the 928 OC Internet presence. I suspect Andrew will just use Rennlist as he does not participate with the 700+ users on the 928 OC forum. Whereas James can simply ask me to do it, and I will, since I will have so much more time!
In the meantime, I am there to help people get through the little issues they might have when the occur.
08-15-2012, 10:48 AM
#74
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Stan,
Also as a friendly reminder...think back to when you took over a President...you had no "transition" team or any thing else..BUT the desire to dedicate your time any energy to the 928OC. PLEASE give others the same chance to do the same as you were given...after all the 928OC is not the CIA and if there is some bumps and hiccups along the way during the "transition"...I swear to you no one other than you and maybe a few others will notice...and no animals will be harmed in the process....and worse case scenario, maybe a "system reboot" would be the best thing to ever happen to the OC.
In the end it is just a Car Club and should be about comradery first.
All the best,
Dave
Also as a friendly reminder...think back to when you took over a President...you had no "transition" team or any thing else..BUT the desire to dedicate your time any energy to the 928OC. PLEASE give others the same chance to do the same as you were given...after all the 928OC is not the CIA and if there is some bumps and hiccups along the way during the "transition"...I swear to you no one other than you and maybe a few others will notice...and no animals will be harmed in the process....and worse case scenario, maybe a "system reboot" would be the best thing to ever happen to the OC.
In the end it is just a Car Club and should be about comradery first.
All the best,
Dave
08-15-2012, 10:49 AM
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I do think it is being overlooked that the 928 OC is *very* healthy both with regard to membership growth and also with regard to program development.
So, while I am over committed and in great desire for help, I suggest the club is doing just fine 50% membership grown in 2 years, and steady growth since the annual membership renewal cost was implemented in 2003. We have added several new programs in just the past 2 years.
I am very happy to turn it over to someone who will *follow through* on their promises, and James has shown that he will do so, there can be no doubt about that.