Bill Ball

UPDATE 1/1/12: It seems to be fixed
1/4/2012: maybe not. ( See post 144 onward)
1/6/2012: OK, it's now good, except for the speedo. If you are swapping in an LSD or any replacement diff be careful regarding model year. Any 83-89 LSD or open diff is a direct swap into any of those model years, EXCEPT that the magnetic disc changed in 86, so 83-85 diff with its magnetic disc into a later case and vice versa, results in no speedo. So, you'll need to swap the original disc onto the replacement diff or use a diff cover/lid from the year period matching the LSD. All the covers share the same bolt pattern and gasket.

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I will add links pointing to the other threads about my leaky tranny misadventure if you need the history. It's ugly and it just got uglier. The basic background is I got the tranny back from a rebuilder, installed it and upon filling it, I heard a "rub-rub" noise when I started the car with the proper fluid level, and after running it only for 5 minutes, it leaked profusely from the torque converter.

Today Dennis Kao helped me pull the tranny. Took us less than 3 hours - THANKS DENNIS!

Below are pictures of what we saw on partial disassembly.
1. Galling on the TC snout with two score lines on the TC surface. I think it's toast from the galling - it catches your finger nail and feels rough.
2. At least one rather sizable piece of metal in the primary pump front bearing. The bearing rollers looked roughed up.
3. A tear in the front seal.

We could not get the primary pump off. it appears the rebuilder glued the gasket on both sides. I pulled on it pretty hard. Previously it would come off easily. [Proved to just be stuck well but not glued with gasket goop.]

Give me your opinions as to why this occurred and what you would do short of murder. I will consider some suitable form of mayhem. Personally, I think the tranny is potentially ruined from scattered metal fragments. The metal piece sitting in the bearing and other tiny flakes sitting in the area may have come from some other disaster within the tranny. It made a loud whistle in D for the few minutes I ran it.

Mrmerlin

drain the lines out and flush them.
Replace the front pump and torque converter.
or swap in a good tranny and swap over your new LSD

Bill Ball

What? You have nothing evil to suggest that I can do to the rebuilder?

Since there is no telling if the tranny will work properly anymore, I'm leaning towards a donor used tranny, swapping my pinion and diff to it. The donor has a bad diff and 2.2 gear ratio.

mickster

Well...if he doesn't refund your money, take him to court-The People's Court!

Dave928S

I have a suggestion ... tell him to brace himself, because you're coming over to do a transmission insertion for Christmas.

borland

Here's a cutaway view of the front of your transmission. Red arrow pointing to the front seal. Notice where the torque converter meshes with the main pump where it drives the main pump gear.



From you photo, it looks like the mechanic left a piece of metal behind the front seal which got wedged between the main pump body and the torque converter. From running the engine, that piece of metal has destroyed your torque converter. Not trusting any of the previous work by the mechanic, I'd recommend rechecking any prior components/parts touched. It's hard to tell how much metal flake/crud contamination got into the tranny; could be minimal.

Also, I don't recall having a roller bearing just behind the front seal.

Sorry to hear that he used gasket adhesive on the gasket. He should have known better.

Bill Ball

It is possible that metal flake was and isolated accident left there. I need to check the pan and drained fluid for any more evidence. I'm worried there may be more to the story based on the noise in D. I know that could just be air being pulled out of the valve body, but it did not stop and was present each time I put the tranny in D. I've never heard that noise before when doing fluid and filter changes.

He did the B3 piston and K1 friction discs. I would check them, but the primary pump is rather stuck on. I need to devise a puller. I pulled as hard as I could on the two bolts you insert to act as pullers, but it would not budge.

borland

Also, the cutaway view does not show the roller bearing just behind the front seal. It does show a bushing.

GregBBRD

Roller bearing was an update to the later transmissions. I believe the change was made in 1989.

Speedtoys

Assuming you have a stack of $ in savings...I would:

Ask him to make this good, and your make it good is send it to Greg Brown.
If he refuses, YOU take it to Greg Brown.

You can sue in Small Claims in CA for up to $7500.

Sue for the cost of all shipping and personal transportation, plus Greg's rebuild.




He -wont- win.

borland

Thanks Greg, I didn't recall. It's been awhile since I rebuilt the one on my '90 S4.

Bill Ball

Right. It was updated to a bearing in 89MY, shown in the Service Information Technik book for 89 S4.

Also, of note, the rebuilder used an 88MY B3 piston, I think by mistake. [EDIT 12/27: Apparently not an error. A virgin 90 donor tranny also had the 88MY part]

GregBBRD

Put a bolt into the threaded hole and use a slide hammer under the head of the bolt.

The stock gaskets are made from a material that seals very well to clean surfaces. Adding an additional sealant to this surface will make the gasket less efficient, not more efficient. The fact that he doesn't know this probably tells you all you need to know.

Pull the pump, figure out what is wrong, fix the problem, pull the pan, change the filter, and hope that everything else he did is correct.

Bill Ball

My experience is that you cannot effectively flush an oil cooler that is metal contaminated. At least not without some serious ultrasonic bath process. The oil cooler has some mesh inside it that at least temporarily damns up the metal. I'm not sure what the tranny cooler looks like inside. How am I going to flush the tranny cooler that is in the radiator? I think I need to assume the metal contamination was rather limited and hope for the best. I mean, I'll do some sort of flush, but I don't think there is any practical way to be sure short of replacing lots of things. I don't see gobs of metal like I have seen before with bearing failures, where replacing was the only option, but I have some concern about where the metal came from and where it went.

Speedtoys

An inline filter isnt out of the question...its not a high pressure system.