DR

SON OF A *#&@^$^@.. I just committed 2 days ago to driving my Dad and his Airstream down to Myrtle Beach for a family camping trip that weekend. I Love going to Road Atlanta and haven't been in years and years.. I would have been all over that!

Thanks for the offer, PLEASE think of me the next time you go!!

Best of luck and give em heck.

James Bailey

Mike I hear you loud and clear...."I had at a car show was seeing a 62 Pontiac across the lot. While walking there I imagined the possibilities of unique engines such as a 421 or 3- 2's induction. When I got there it was a LS Chevy motor and that sucked. I don't care how easy and cheap it was for the owner, it was a lost opportunity to savor rare and fascinating engineering and I feel cheated by wasting my time walking to it. Why did he even bother to display it and even prop the hood up as though I'm going to be impressed by his cheapness and laziness?......"
I guess when GM went to corporate engines and most everything became a Chevy we have a whole generation who think Olds, Pontiac, Buick all used Chevy motors.

DR

Mike,

That is a valid point, I get that completely. It reminds me of the times I walk over to see a killer 32 Ford, etc and see a Chevy motor it, makes me want to barf.

Of course with 928 motors we had basically 3 versions, the cool 16V spider motor, the GORGEOUS, BEAUTIFUL:-) 85-86 32V and the S4 engine (speaking of just intake systems)...so there is no special "421s" to gaze upon, they all look a like. Of course, we both are guilty of changing the one part that makes the 928 engine look like a 928 engine, at least at first glance, oooopps!! :-)

Funny, I would be more excited walking over to a 928 if I thought it might have one of your systems on it, much more so to go look at another stock 928 intake.

Glad you brought that up, puts a different spin on the whole conversation.

Cheers,

Dave

blown 87

I am very interested in that Mike, and not only that, I can tune you to either a DNS or a DNF................

So on second though, maybe I will just come see you run,

blown 87

I think the 85-86 is the best looking of all the stock 928 engines.

RFJ

ugly 85-86,well I never,Its the best looking motor (save yours) there is.

Mike Simard

There's no work involved. I have allowances for "crew" and you would be welcome to use that as a free entry pass, not actually doing anything, I would just have to add your name. Otherwise you have to pay a gate fee.

BTW, count me in as a fan of 85-86s, they are the best looking engine bay, like a massive engine is snugly packed in!

S4ordie

A-yep! It looks tightly packed and purposefull. Though not as efficient as the S4/GT/GTS intaked engines later, the straight runners on the 85/85 look better.

BC

As Greg has mentioned previously, and if anyone does some math, it will make constructive sense -

We don't have as many motors to blow up as Chevy does. Seriously - Finding blocks and heads will become an issue in time - so either use Chevy engines in the car while we are continually blowing **** up, or we have to build the 928 engines with some mind to making sure we don't blow them up. Tuning is one main issue, and I feel that many are somewhat... purposely blind-eyed to the issue of detonation and how much that truly affects the longevity on the hard street and track.

GregBBRD

They don't even have to detonate to kill themselves.

In the days when I was working on 3.8 RSRs all day long....we found out that 75 knock counts out of 10,000 would pound out the "soft" rod bearings and a connecting rod would come flying through the crankcase right around 8 hours of running.

Note that the "early" 911 Cup Car water cooled race engines had the "soft" street rod bearings.....and Porsche couldn't keep the connecting rods inside the engine. Once they switched to the new (several versions of new, BTW), harder bearings, they pretty much cured the rod bearing problems.

IcemanG17

GREAT THREAD

I spend quite a bit of time at the racetrack....granted in a "slow" car.....I talk to lots of guys that have everything from bone stock "sports" cars to full blown insane $$$ racers.....

The common thread I get is "stock" engined cars tend to be the most reliable (assuming a decent oiling system).....change one thing on say a chevy LS engine...lets say a high HP cam....it will make GREAT power for about 10 hours...then blow up....many-many people have told me this....when I say "stock" I mean internals.....you can get away with intake-exhaust mods, but thats about it...once you change a major operation system in the engine, then you need to have a 100% custom built engine around it to be reliable

Which gets to the next ???...exactly what is "reliable" for a race engine.....how long should it last for $xxxxxx? Most typical sprint racing cars that run a full season of say 12 races...will get about 12 hours per year run time.....so even at a 50 hour lifespan (double what GT3 cups are quoted) thats 4 years....Endurance racing is a different game....many hours per day...constant running...much harder on the car

Granted I run "captain no bucks" endurance racing with Lemons....but I still have 54 hours of run time on the current bone stock $300 used engine that is in the car.....only a free flow exhaust.....if all goes well this weekend it will have about 72 hours on it by Sunday....no accusump, no oil cooler.....

Don't get me wrong....I would LOVE to have a Doc Brown or Mike Simard Stroker.....that is my DREAM...but thats not gonna happen for a while.....

Bottom line...... The one thing I have learned in all my racing-track driving experience is the same thing Jim Bailey figured out YEARS ago......a gutted bone stock OB 928 is a BLAST to drive on track....you can turn impressive lap times on a very modest budget....under Spec Miata budget...which really is the cost per lap time champion in most peoples opinion....

The only downside is finding an appropriate class to "race" in that is fun and competitive.....

john gill

Love racing engines period anything from 4 stroke to the merlins (particularly) , as a professional tuner the serious power that can be tuned before the onset of detonation mind is mind boggling . This is the secret to making engines live if the oiling system is able to prevent the contact of metal parts causing catastrophy . And the wealth of engine building knowledge on this forum is evident to this . I compete in the Porsche club championship and the cheating that is going on in a purely amateur environment is enormous . but the seroiusoly fast cars are all dry sumped , so from this it doesnt matter what the tuning state is if you cannot guarantee the oiling it matters not wether it is porsche gm or ford

JG

DR

OK, OK, I changed that...it wasn't really my words...it is what I have heard from almost every 928er over the last 20 years during tech calls. "No, I have the early 32V with the Ugly Intake"....Or was it a Freudian slip...hmmmm.. LOL



Dave

John Speake

Hi Dave,
The stroker in my avatar ran last years race series with stock intake and SMAF, and all this season with ITBs, consistantly drive very hard. Excellent results in the AMOC Intermarque series here in UK (racing Aston Martins against Ferraris and a few Porsches)

Engine was built by the owner.

mark kibort

the 928 engines are bullet proof.thats 15 years of racing, more than most any one here, and never an engine failure or issue. all motors pulled out of the car and checked for bearing wear, and there has been none! including the 8 full racing seasons Holbert engine with the stock 5 liter putting out 335rwhp.

currently running a Todd bult 6.4 liter stroker with 85 cam and stock S4heads puttling out 372rwhp and its into its 4th full race season next year.

no oil coolers, no pan spacers, scrapers, accusump, breathers, all stock stock stock. 1:36.1 at laguna seca. thats a top 10 time for most all of the speedWC GT cars up through 2003 for a car that was at the time, 20 years older than any car running in the series!

in my opinion, the 928 is pretty bullet proof, and i can safely say, ive seen about most everything out there from every manufacturer.

mk