Mrmerlin

Bill the trans does need to come out so the front pump seals can be changed its easier to refit the front pump if the rear of the trans is lower than the front I see that NamasGT has also added this info. Since your at this point i would try to figure out a way to drop the trans.
Raise the car up some drop the rear Xmember slide it back.
( NOTE you can use a few motorcycle tie downs to secure the trans to the swaybar while the Xmember is moved out of the way)
then with a few heavy lifter assistants drop out the trans.
replace the front pump O ring and the radial seal on the TC add some vaseline to the bronze bushing behind the radial seal so the TC wont seize when you start the engine
I like to put DC111 on the O ring as it keeps it soft and makes it easier to not pinch it when refitting.

as previously posted wipe off the front pump gasket do not remove it,
with the trans out you can also replace the vacuum modulator and all of the other O ring seals on the outside of the trans,
fit a new pan gasket after the trans is in the car as it may be resting on the pan at some point and this will usually damage the gasket.

I am sure you can have a few fellow s come over to assist in the trans RnR good luck

RET

Bill, Let me know if you would like me drop by and provide some semi-skilled labor during the week.

Bob

Bill Ball

Stan: Thanks for the further advice. Just about any move to extract the tranny is going to be tricky at this point. I've got myself into a pretty good mess trying it this way.

Bob: I'm hoping to get out of this mess this afternoon when George comes over. Right now I'm a bit frustrated. I've got things in a situation where it's not obvious to me how to best continue. There is no clear way to get the tranny the rest of the way out from where it is now with the tools I have. It should be easy, but if you saw the geometry of the current situation, you'd understand. If I'm still at it this coming week, come on over.

Mrmerlin

perhaps some pictures of the current situation may be able to add to the helpful suggestion on how to proceed

Bill Ball

OK, I got the TC out. Note one of the problems with this was the TC stuck to the cover, which contributed to the lack of clearance for removal. But note that even if the cover had come off separately, clearance is an issue until the tranny is very low. When I replaced the cover bearings last time I tried this, the cover was stuck then, but I worked it off. I cleaned up the TC snout and lubed it then, but now it seems more stuck than before.

I guess I'm on my way now. Just need to work the cover off the TC and find the seals in my parts bins. Also, I have some questions. See next post in a few minutes.

Bill Ball

I see a hollow tube with a solid shaft inside it. The hollow tube is firm but the inner shaft has a fair amount of play. Is that OK or do I have worn bushings? I gather this is referred to as the drive shaft. If there are bushings, where are they? I don't see them in PET. And in Adam's AT rebuild thread, he shows the removal of the primary pump in message 47.

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ld-thread.html

I don't see anything supporting the drive shaft.

IcemanG17

Wish I was there to help!!! I will be home Monday.....might be able to swing by in the evenings?

I remember when my trans was rebuilt.....the "fit" of the rear flexplate and TC is quite precise....a whole bunch of info on it in the WSM.....

I do have a spare trans, but its the 84 open diff that came out of the Estate......if you need it, its yours

namasgt

The outer shaft is solid. It has splines that lock it into place to the aluminum oil pump housing. The oil pump is the rusty looking one bolted to the middle of the housing. The pump is bolted from behind, so you should take the housing off first in order to take the pump out. That solid shaft is there because one of the oil pump gears (the small one) rotate around it, on the base of the shaft. one of the bushings is pressed into the middle of this gear. Once the pump is out, put the small gear on the solid shaft and see if there is play. If there is play, change the bushing. You can also look at the shaft itself, bushing material will be embedded into the shaft, kind of like a failed rod bearing discoloring the crank journal.
The other bushing is pressed into the "steel" oil pump housing right behind the main seal. the torque converter rides on this bushing, it also rotates the small gear and basically makes the oil pump work. And like I explained trough PM, once this bushing is worn you will see a lot of oil leak from the main seal, which makes people think the main seal is bad. I do not see any oil traces around the pump, did you clean the area?

Note: the housing is the one that has 8-9 bolts holding it in place, looking at your pictures.

namasgt

One more thing, the middle shaft drives the gears, once this is out and the oil pump, the gear assembly will move forward ( a little bit) and cause some binding, when you put every thing back together and try to rotate the shaft, it wont rotate. That's why I said the gear box should be facing up when oil pump work is being done. The shaft has some shims on it, don't lose them. there should be some play, specs should be in WSM. I have not added shims because the gear box shifted great before I teared in to it and did not notice significant amount of play.
Make sure you know which way the small oil pump gear was facing, the pump I took out of the 3 speed did not have any marks so I had to be careful. One side would be worn, and that should be your mark on which way it goes once you put every thing back together.

borland

The two threaded bolts holes used to extract the cover only serve as handles. Don't try to use them to press-off the cover by tightening them, that will damage the cover and gasket mating surface. The bolts are just used to pull the cover back.

That thread is very poor guide. Best to use the WSM as a guide.

Bill Ball

To my reading the WSM isn't a whole lot of help on the workings and specs of the primary pump and whatever bushings might be in there.

The drive shaft doesn't move in and out - it moves up and down and I hear "clunk, clunk" noises.

There was only oil on the lower part of the pump housing and that could have come from the main seal. The main seal was not obviously bad. I'll raise the front of the tranny and pull the pump cover and see what's up behind it.

borland

You mean something like this sketch from the WSM, Vol 3, pg 37-160 ....



Inside, you'll only find a small thrust bearing as noted in the above sketch. The Torque converter bearings in front of the torque converter provide the axle centering. That's probably why they recommend uprighting the transmission during the torque converter dis-assembly and re-assembly.

On the other end of the input shaft are the planetary gears.

Bill Ball

Thanks for bearing with me. Ew, I think I made a pun. OK, so the concern is axial play, or as I called it, in-out. I think it's good.

But what else should I look at here? I don't see "bushings". Maybe that's a 3-speed thing. I don't see the pump o-ring. Maybe I need new glasses. [EDIT: Oh, that's because the o-ring and bushings are inside the pump in pics 2 & 3 that needs to be opened up.] Any dirt smudges in the pics were from my gloves - everything inside looks very clean with no clutch debris. I've never found anything in the pan. The fluid has always been bright, clear red, and it has been changed religiously every 30K miles, almost always with M1 synthetic.

I guess I should machine some "centering pins" from extra bolts. I made some "handles" for installing the TC.

Thanks Brian, Ali and Stan for the guidance. It's obvious I've never been inside one of these before. I guess that goes w/o saying.

I'm off the Rennsport Reunion tomorrow. Assuming I can find the seals, I should button this up on Monday.

borland

I would do a complete teardown and reassembly with all new seals. You'd be sure to find some parts that need to be replaced.

Since your not me, you could pull the K1 and check the stackup of the B3, but you B3 piston doesn't show any signs of wear from a severly worn B3 friction and steel plates. Or you could just call it a day and replace the input shaft seal.

Bill Ball

So, what I felt when I moved the drive shaft from side to side or up and down was the whole K1-B1-B3 assembly moving. I'm going to assume that is normal unless told otherwise. The drive shaft is secured in the TC cover.

A typical Saturday night at the Ball household....